Building ICF house in western Washington. Suggestions on low maintenance windows for wet climate. All Ulterx? Or, Aluminum-clad wood? Something else? Thanks for your sugestions.

Clad wood. Get the factory metal trim. It makes them bombproof.

Posted By MerlinMc on 01 Sep 2012 11:44 PM
Building ICF house in western Washington. Suggestions on low maintenance windows for wet climate. All Ulterx? Or, Aluminum-clad wood? Something else? Thanks for your sugestions.

uPVC will do extremely well in wet climates. Aluminum exterior with wood interior are great also but the wood can be susceptible to rot if it is exposed to moisture. Not an issue with good windows but if you forget to close the windows when it rains, it can become a problem. 

Any particular brands, series? Thanks.

Not an issue with good windows but if you forget to close the windows when it rains, it can become a problem.

One, or even several instances of wetting in this way will not harm the windows. They are designed to get wet and then dry. I have them treated with only a wood stabilizer right now. No finish yet. We have already had several instances of tradesmen leaving them open to rain and wind and they have not been marked at all. Wood is quite stable in windows and there is no reason not to use it in Western Washington if you want the beauty.

Posted By ICFHybrid on 02 Sep 2012 01:30 AM

Not an issue with good windows but if you forget to close the windows when it rains, it can become a problem.

One, or even several instances of wetting in this way will not harm the windows. They are designed to get wet and then dry. I have them treated with only a wood stabilizer right now. No finish yet. We have already had several instances of tradesmen leaving them open to rain and wind and they have not been marked at all. Wood is quite stable in windows and there is no reason not to use it in Western Washington if you want the beauty.

I agree that a properly designed and installed alum/wood window should be trouble free but the fact is that wood can and does rot, even in high-end windows like Pella. As a matter of fact Pella had a huge class action lawsuit against them after thousands of their high-end wood windows experienced complete rot just after 3-5 years of use. Marvin had the same issue with their alum/wood windows. I believe they traced it back to the wood treatment they used and poorly engineered seals.

You Tube Video - Window Rot

Alum/wood clad window issues

Class Action Lawsuit

Just Google "Pella Marvin wood window rot" and you will get thousands of hits. They literally had moss and mushrooms growing out of 5 year old alum/wood clad windows.

I want to be clear that I am not knocking Pella or Marvin windows. I believe they addressed the source of the problem and fixed it. I just want to make the point that alum/wood clad windows if not 100% properly designed, engineered and installed can and will rot. More so in a rainy/humid climate like the Pacific NW.

I believe they traced it back to the wood treatment they used

Exactly. That came to them from the provider of the wood treatment. That is obviously an issue that can and has been remedied.

alum/wood clad windows if not 100% properly designed, engineered and installed and and will rot.

Anything organic can rot. Installation is everything.

Clad wood windows are still the premium window, even in the Pacific NW.

"Anything organic can rot." Fiberglass will not and cannot rot, whatever happens. Several Canadian companies make fiberglass windows, but in the US few manufacturers have been willing to spend the upfront cost to manufacture these windows, the exceptions being Marvin with their Integrity line and Serious windows which is soon to revert to it's old name - Alpen. Serious/Alpen offers several triple and quad options, Integrity offers triple pane options. (Ultrex is Marvin's name for it's fiberglass products.) If you want a really bulletproof window, this is it.

Fiberglass will not and cannot rot, whatever happens

There is nothing to be gained by quibbling, Bob. All the types of windows have their strong points and their weak points. The point is that wood windows are not contraindicated simply because it is a "wet climate". If you have a home with a poor moisture history, putting wood windows in without solving the underlying problems is a big mistake. However, if you have a quality building envelope, wood windows offer one of the most stable and beautiful options available.

Not quibbling, just tired of replacing twenty year old expensive wood windows which have rotted when there are good alternatives available. I agree that a lot of the problems are due to poor installation, but some are the result of incompatible expansion between the glass and the other components. One of the things we're seeing is failures in installation that were almost perfectly installed according to the directions provided at the time, but weren't good enough to prevent problems. A window made of material impervious to water would have survived, so why not use it?

A window made of material impervious to water would have survived, so why not use it?

Because there is more to the residential environment than how impervious something is.

Posted By ICFHybrid on 02 Sep 2012 09:38 AM

I believe they traced it back to the wood treatment they used

Exactly. That came to them from the provider of the wood treatment. That is obviously an issue that can and has been remedied.

alum/wood clad windows if not 100% properly designed, engineered and installed and and will rot.

Anything organic can rot. Installation is everything.

Clad wood windows are still the premium window, even in the Pacific NW.

The Pella issue was two-fold, the main issue was their design of the alum/wood clad and the other was supposedly the wood treatment. It took a class action lawsuit to get Pella to own up to the issue, Pella was doing anything and everything it could to deny fault and warranty claims. Which I am sure most window companies would do likewise.

So even with 100% proper installation, those Pella windows were doomed to fail the day they came off the Pella assembly line. It was their design that was faulty. In order to save face, Pella had to replace 60% of the windows in residential home in their own hometown manufacturing plant of Iowa.

Wood is a great product and it has natural intrinsic beauty AS LONG as it is kept dry and away from the elements. Interior wood windows have great beauty and bring a nice touch to the interior but the exterior design & engineering must be bulletproof/waterproof and kept dry.

I've wondered why, for windows that don't need to be opened, it isn't more common to buy insulated glass (IGUs) and build your own frame out of HardieTrim, tropical hardwoods (like Ipe) or PVC trim.

I prefer fiberglass windows and doors in the Southeast.  High humidity can cause wood to swell and be hard to open or close.  Some vinyl windows that I have used on the sunny side of the house expand enough to make them difficult to open and close.  (I have not used vinyl windows with steel inserts which supposely restricts excessive expansion.) 

Solid wood doors also experience the same problems as wood windows.  Stained wood doors exposed to direct sunlight require frequent refinishing.  At least that has been my experience in the Southeast area.

Alton, what fiberglass windows do you use?

Wood is a great product.. AS LONG as it is kept dry and away from the elements.

My limited experience has been than hip roofs and overhangs make a significant difference in terms of keeping the walls and windows dry.

Posted By MerlinMc on 03 Sep 2012 10:13 PM
Alton, what fiberglass windows do you use?

Marvin Integrity. Clients recognize and trust the brand name. 

Posted By Alton on 04 Sep 2012 08:48 AM

Marvin Integrity. Clients recognize and trust the brand name. 

Alton - Do they come in triple pane? Also, can one get a different INTERIOR color besides white?

When I went on Marvin's website, it only showed white as the option for an interior color. They had different exterior color options but only white on the interior.

Lbear,

Check with your local Marvin dealer to see what can be shipped to your area.  I have been told that triple panes are available in the Integrity line.

Integrity is now making casements and awnings in triple glazed. Marvin makes two fiberglass windows - the Integrity line and the All Ultrex line; same except that the Integrity has a pine interior - real wood, not just an ultra thin veneer, and from the inside it looks like a wood window. You can stain it, leave it clear pine or paint it whatever color you want.