Liviu, that is exactly the kind of post that creates so much negativity toward you, and doesn't really help your case with the product that you're so blatantly promoting.

When you come on a forum such as this with the message that you have a "be all, and end all" product, that will take over the world, and make all other competitive products obsolete, what do you expect? many who have asked questions about MGO board, or provided information that they thought to be valid, still, usually commented that they thought that the product has merit, and will, or may, be a major factor in the marketplace at some point. (I made a comment such as this sometime back)

The question about corrosion IS a BIG DEAL!, and if you don't understand why then you're way out of your league in this group. "Just make sure that it does not touch the metal"? Not even worth commenting on. BTW, how many specific incidents can you site where an OSB SIP Building was seriously damaged by water intrusion? (Caveat here "Properly installed SIPS) And, for your information, the OSB that's used for SIP "skins" today does NOT disintegrate when it gets some water on it. And, at least one major manufacturer offers a very effective mold and termite inhibitor. This is not PARTICLE BOARD that we're talking about here, this is exterior grade structural sheathing material that has a great track record., is readily available, is competitively priced. And, oh yes, contrary to that ridiculous chart that you posted, it IS considered to be "Environmentally Friendly" when used in connection with SIPs, and, to be fair with other accepted "almost as good, alternative" super energy efficient framing systems. I f you don't agree, take it up with USGBC, US Dept. of Energy, Build It Green, etc. There are more inconsistencies, inaccuracies, etc. in that subject chart, but those can be addressed at a later time if this thread continues in this mode.

There have been many other legitimate questions, and comments, regarding MGO Board, that have been brought up in the past on this thread (both positive and negative) but I don't think that there's a need to rehash all of that. Actually, for anyone who's tuning in late here, and is inclined toward lengthy writings, let's say such as "War and Peace", they might enjoy going back to the beginning of this thing.

Hi all,

We are here to discuss if MgO boards are the best choice for SIP skins.

Different manufacturers make very different products, even though they use the same raw materials. The reasons are manifold: the quality of magnesia, namely, its activity rates and purity; the formula, the post-treatments, etc. Just as wood has many species like pine, poplar, and redwood..., some MgO boards are light in weight, flexible like soft wood, and others are hard and rigid like hard wood. Better than wood, they don't burn.

For over 30 years the Chinese manufacturers have been fighting against the corrossive effects caused by MgCL2. We can not say that MgO boards are perfect now. But we are positive that the brine reccurance is effectivelt controlled by most reliable manufacturers.

I saw the errosive effect caused by MgCl2 to a steel structure years ago. It was so bad. But now, people have more knowledge about reducing the negative effect to minimum. The manufacturers know what is the right amount of MgCl2 in the ingredients, and the contractors know what fasteners to use to avoid errossiveness.

All in all, MgO boards are green, fire proof, strong and weather-bearing. They are marvelous. As a good carpenter knows how to select wood for different purposes, a good contracter can do the same. Don't trust the test result of one species. There are so many species.

Sam Shan

Posted By The Sipper on 15 Feb 2010 09:47 PM
Liviu, that is exactly the kind of post that creates so much negativity toward you, and doesn't really help your case with the product that you're so blatantly promoting.

When you come on a forum such as this with the message that you have a "be all, and end all" product, that will take over the world, and make all other competitive products obsolete, what do you expect? many who have asked questions about MGO board, or provided information that they thought to be valid, still, usually commented that they thought that the product has merit, and will, or may, be a major factor in the marketplace at some point. (I made a comment such as this sometime back)

The question about corrosion IS a BIG DEAL!, and if you don't understand why then you're way out of your league in this group. "Just make sure that it does not touch the metal"? Not even worth commenting on. BTW, how many specific incidents can you site where an OSB SIP Building was seriously damaged by water intrusion? (Caveat here "Properly installed SIPS) And, for your information, the OSB that's used for SIP "skins" today does NOT disintegrate when it gets some water on it. And, at least one major manufacturer offers a very effective mold and termite inhibitor. This is not PARTICLE BOARD that we're talking about here, this is exterior grade structural sheathing material that has a great track record., is readily available, is competitively priced. And, oh yes, contrary to that ridiculous chart that you posted, it IS considered to be "Environmentally Friendly" when used in connection with SIPs, and, to be fair with other accepted "almost as good, alternative" super energy efficient framing systems. I f you don't agree, take it up with USGBC, US Dept. of Energy, Build It Green, etc. There are more inconsistencies, inaccuracies, etc. in that subject chart, but those can be addressed at a later time if this thread continues in this mode.

There have been many other legitimate questions, and comments, regarding MGO Board, that have been brought up in the past on this thread (both positive and negative) but I don't think that there's a need to rehash all of that. Actually, for anyone who's tuning in late here, and is inclined toward lengthy writings, let's say such as "War and Peace", they might enjoy going back to the beginning of this thing.

Sipper, I want you to tell me why IS A BIG DEAL the corrosion problem if the contact with metal can be avoided. And what else is wrong with this product that is not acceptable to you ? Why is OSB better ?

Liviu, Yes, if in a typical building project, you have no contact between the MGO Board, and metal, then corrosion is not an issue. By the same token, if you install OSB SIPs properly, and avoid excessive contact with water, then what is the problem? Beyond that, all of this has been pointed out before but you either don't get it, or are not paying attention. There are the issues of" availability, limited panel sizes, wide spread testing and approval, to name a few.

Your total dedication to this one product is admirable, in a way. However, your approach is either unbelievably naive, or you're so out of touch with reality that you can't focus on anything other than your own perceptions. Your response to my last post is a case in point, you didn't respond to, or counter, any of the points that I was presenting other than the one that has to do with corrosion. Does this mean that you agreed with everything else that I said in that post? If so then, we should be able to move on, I have no other problems with MGO board, at least for now.

In regard to Samfove's more conciliatory remarks, I'll wait until I see some evidence that MGO Board qualifies for any substantial number of LEED points, or gains recognition from other credible sources, before drawing any conclusion regarding its "Greenness". "Fireproof"? Many building products are not combustible, but, as has been pointed out several times on this very thread, it is the "overall building assembly", plus all of the things that are inside and outside, of any given structure, that contribute, more heavily to the issue of fire danger, or damage for that matter. Weather bearing? I don't know exactly what that means but if it means "weather resistant" OK , but, man, just about everybody is building with weather resistant exteriors these days. "Marvelous"? Not a word that you often hear in connection with a sheathing products, but I won't quibble about that one.

Posted By Liviu on 15 Feb 2010 08:00 PM
Why is such a big deal this corosion? it is the same with the OSB, if it gets wet is garbage. With MGO just make sure it does not touch the metal.

Finally the truth is surfacing, there apparently are corrosion issues,

what holds spline joints together when the fasteners are gone?

It would be the truth if this guy knew what he is talking about..no offence but I have been reading his responses..he is enthusiastic but still a rookie.. we glue and mechanically fasten the panels to the spline..the new generation boards have been designed to work with metal

I asked Dan Armstrong at Magnum Board, who I bought my product from about use in SIPS and he said:

Magnum Board first of all is negative CO² so its cleaning the air we breathe from the moment it is installed.
There are a number of SIP manufacturers using Magnum Board. Those using it include manufacturers in SC, TX, Chile, Bolivia, WA, FL and others.The number is growing steadily to a point where they represent about 60% of our market.
As for longevity, you can actually submerse Magnum Board in water for an extended period of time with no dimensional change whatsoever.
Code calls that it be decorated or finished with paint or another decorative coating which actually seals the product. The excellent adhesion properties of Magnum Board also make it a perfect product for Structural Insulated Panels (SIPS), Exterior Insulated Finish Systems (EIFS) and interior wall systems using fabrics.

I know that they have their own factories and have tight controls over manufacturing. Anyway, itis the brand I used for floor underlayment under cement tile (Villa Lagoon Tile) , interior walls, and ceilings. Our sheets sat out in the weather for months before installation w/ no ill effect and no notice of any leaching of any kind. I love this stuff.

Does somebody know the name of the Canadian manufacturer on mgo board

Pierre Desjardins
Banerpan Panel
[email protected]
450-546-9047

MgO (or fibercement) covered SIPs that don't need additional covering inside or outside would be very interesting.

I don't think I would completely trust any certifications for materials - how hard is it to grind up a couple of  wallboard or MgO samples, drop steel and copper nails in them and wait a few days?

Hi everyone
Well I have waded thru all you postings on this subject, and smiled - very interesting! The reason I am interested is that we are setting up a SIPS industry here in NZ and so are interested in the use of MGO and Cement Panels. NZ is a small place and we will have to import in the shorter term future from China. We can use empty containers returning to lessen embedded energy units. Also we have had a plague of Leaky homes and that has had a backlash. My questions are not really to compare OSB with MGO - as the former has had a number of problems down under.

My question and call for your advice is:
1. What are the top ten quality assured MGO manufacturers in China ... mentioned previously
2. Corrosion factor of fixings ... zinc was mentioned as a good medium for linking screws. Does MGO leaching (if it is a problem) have any effect on aluminium skinned timber window frames
3. Structural loading has been mentioned a number of times. Are there any figures on structural capabilities of MGO skins. Our SIPS has been designed as 170mm or 6.6" face to face with a layer of either 10mm MGO or 14mm on either side of PIR. Roofing panels are 200mm or 7.8"

We plan to get some samples made up soon and tested in Australia - so any advice earlier than later would be received with gratitude ... we will of course share the results of our testing.... which may answer some of the concerns on this blog.

thanks guys

M

I bought a house recently and found that the ceiling was built with MGO (perhaps the walls too). After we moved in, we noticed a lot of oily liquid hang on the ceiling and dripped down. The board has become very soft and I can press into the board with my finger nails. It was not definitely water or water condense but greasy liquid. The white paint on it seems to have been dissolved and I can remove some parts of it with my finger. Anyone saw this before and know whether it is the board's problem or the paint?

Posted By diklee on 04 May 2010 11:19 PM
I bought a house recently and found that the ceiling was built with MGO (perhaps the walls too). After we moved in, we noticed a lot of oily liquid hang on the ceiling and dripped down. The board has become very soft and I can press into the board with my finger nails. It was not definitely water or water condense but greasy liquid. The white paint on it seems to have been dissolved and I can remove some parts of it with my finger. Anyone saw this before and know whether it is the board's problem or the paint?

I should say oily liquid. The board is about 5-6 years old, and the area is very very humid (next to sea). There is a code "M-09" on it. Any help is appreciated.

diklee;

might be a good idea to take a piece and have it tested for your own peace of mind

Wow! what a thread. Excuse me for not reading all 18 pages.

I am thinking of buying container of Mag-board from China. Has anyone here done that?

I bought a 20 ft container when building my house. See this page: http://www.concretecottage.com/w-magnesium-oxide-boards-and-evoba.htm
It was a great decision on our part. Big savings. We ended up w/ some sheets that we didn't use but we traded some to our workers for their own projects and sold a few sheets on the side. In fact, sold 2 sheets yesterday to some guys from New Orleans who drive over to see the product as wall board in person.
I bought from Magnum Board. http://www.magnumbp.com I'm a happy customer.

I was able to get 4 x 10 sheets which was good as my ceilings are tall and it was a cost per sq ft savings too.

We used it for floor underlayment, interior walls and ceilings. I still have about 40 sheets of 1/4 inch ( 4' x 8' ) and similar if anyone is interested. Keep in mind that you can use thinner MgO wallboards than you'd use w/ gypsum products.

I have a number of questions for my situation.

What about code approval and ASTM testing?

Could I use it as roof sheathing under sheet metal roofing, trusses 2'oc? What thickness?

Could I use it for ceilings, trusses 2' oc, what thickness?

Walls and cover with dryvit, what thickness?

For the product that I bought, here is the testing info:
http://www.magnumbp.com/Files/PDF/Magnum%20Board%20Certified%20Test%20Summary%20and%20Product%20Specifications%20Issue%20XIV%2005-10.pdf
or go to http://www.magnumbp.com and click 'testing' in navigation on left

I am new to this forum and have read all the threads back to 2007. Very interesting and many points of view!

 

We have been evaluating our laminations using MgO board in our plant for some time, finding very positive results using both EPS and XPS cores in SIPS panels we have laminated.  We have purchased material from one major supplier of MgO board for our evaluation.  We manufacture our own EPS.  Going forward I am curious as to whether any domestic SIPS manufacturers have ICC-ES evaluation reports based on AC-04 criteria for their laminated SIPS panels using MgO board.  The only thing I could find is report ICC Report AC386 on MgO board plus the test data from MgO suppliers on the material by itself.  Any feedback would be appreciated.

 

Fred miller

Total Panel Source

fmiller@totalpanelsource

www.totalpanelsource.com

www.thepanelman.com

 

First for full disclosure I work with MagBoard one of a few suppliers if MgO boards to the US market. I would start by saying that there are many types of MgO board ranging from drywall substitutes to full structural panels. Each have different physical properties, performance and costs. So it is important when evaluating which is right for you that you don't lump all MgO boards into the same category. They often are very different.

Regarding testing and use in SIPs. There are several reputable testing labs that issue reports that can be used to qualify a product under local building codes, Intertek, NTA, ICC, UL etc. Each lab has certain specialties and capabilities. In the case of Magboard, we have Intertek testing on all of the physical properties of the board for fire performance, water resistance, mold resistance, nail pull out strength, and so on. But that only tells part of the story since to be fully listed you also have to have quality control programs in place in the manufacturing plant to assure consistent production. Since we are not brokers and manufacture our own products we have had to put this in place. We have test results for Magboard structural sheathing in various assemblies including 2X6 wood frame 2X4 steel frame and SIPs for structural and fire performance. It is the most tested product in the market.The results are outstanding and meet code in even the most demanding jurisdictions.

Our search for a better sheathing material to be used in SIPS is what led us to do MgO product testing and evaluation starting almost 5 years ago. We simply could not find any MgO board on the market with the structural properties required or the durability to arrive undamaged at our facility let alone at the job site. However the fire, mold and water resistant properties are real. This is why we spent the time, and money to develop our own product. We built and certified a manufacturing facility and have gone through years of testing on numerous assemblies.

One of the real issues regarding testing is that the labs are having to develop their own certification criteria on MgO products & SIPs. NTA is perhaps the furthest along for SIPs. They are working hard and should have a certification program within the next couple of months. When this is done we would expect to be fully qualified under their protocols since we have NTA testing completed on the structural properties of SIPs using Magboard sheathing. We have the Intertek QC program in place and a full QC program for the manufacture of Magwall sips. This was a lot of work.

For SIP producers I am sure we can convince you about the suitability of Magboard for your production. However, we only make the product in 4X8 and 4X9 sheets. This may force some rethinking on large panels but we have been building successfully for 5 years in several hundred structures with no problems using Magboard on 4X8 and 4X9 panels. As such we have had to deal with coating and finishing systems, engineering, and construction details that everyone faces.

We all know there is no one product that is best in every application. Evey vested interest has an opinion so it is hard to sort through everyone's comments. My advice would be to chat with the testing agencies. There is clearly a lot of interest in MgO board and they are very familiar with most of the products out there. They are bound by confidentiality so their comments will be guarded. But they might be a good starting point for your evaluation.

If you want to discuss this further please feel free to call me David Chase 775-750-2142

Fred;

I think you will find that,  as you say only the MGO board has ICC testing and not a MGO SIPS