Please if anyone has an answer! I have a Synergy3 system (radiant and air) from WaterFurnace. I WISH I would have read some of these forums earlier!! WaterFurnace seems to have many issues from unsatisfied customers. I have been running on Back-up heat for over 2 months ($$$$$$)! Neither the contractor or WateFurnace are offering to pick up the bill. The system constantly shuts down and after being here 8 times they still can not fix it! WaterFurnace has done nothing to help! My HVAC contractor is just as clueless! What can I do at this point? It seems like I am at the mercy of incompetence!

Find another more competent HVAC contractor. In fairness to WF, most of the problems come from poor designs and installations, not the equipment itself.

We can try to help you figure out why it is shutting down, but we need more info about symptoms - how cold is the water line into the system from outside your house when it is running?

Sorry to hear of your problems.

Where do you live?

I live in Holly Michigan, The installer is out of Shelby Township.

I would not doubt if there are install problems but I will say that WF has not been helpful at all. I have pleaded with them on several ocassions to intervene but they dont seem to care that my Family thanksgiving, xmas, and new years have all been ruined (we were supposed to host TG & Xmas) due to out no-low heat.


As far as the incoming temp I do not know, how do I measure that? There is no sensor on the incoming lines.

The specific symptoms are:

The radiant is secondary to air.

The system will satisfy the air needs (e.g. 66f)

The radiant runs

If the Air needs to come back on it trips the System+2 and then the HIGH PRESSURE light comes on

The System+2 will stay on indefinitely

The radiant will not go back on (ever)

The water heater loses all heat

The forced air becomes cold

The system must be reset (breaker tripped).

It repeats.

Also as far as your suggestion to "Find a more competent contractor" I am on it! I have to insure that my builder, that hvac company, or WF is picking up the bill. I am not paying to fix someone else's error.

I may have to take this to court (yay).

WF depends on installing contractors to deal with owner issues. You may have recourse with state contractor licensing board or consumer protection dept (I'd start with licensing board). Document 8 repair attempts - be reasonable but firm.

When "air comes back on" does blower run? does air come out of registers? If no to either question compressor will trip out on high head pressure, and that is as it should be.

If incoming water line is ice cold - frost forming on it, it is likely too cold and you have a loop issue.

****When "air comes back on" does blower run? does air come out of registers? If no to either question compressor will trip out on high head pressure, and that is as it should be.****

Yes the blower seems to be running and the air comes out (just very cold)

****If incoming water line is ice cold - frost forming on it, it is likely too cold and you have a loop issue.****

The line is very cold. I would not say ice is forming on it but it is very cold (I would say almost freezing).



Thanks for the recourse info (CPA & Board). I am using them now.

Is the system supposed to divert to heating water specifically and lock out the air side? Or does it just have a desuperheater?

Things that will cause a compressor to go out on high head pressure are:
-inadequate air flow
-from dirty air filter
-from bad blower motor
-from bad duct design
-duct/return air blockage
-inadequate return air
-inadequate water flow
-from bad pump
-pump not being turned on when it's supposed to heat the water
-blockage in the water line
-possibly (rare) too much refrigerant, or a refrigerant component (TXV, diversion valve, reversing valve...) not operating correctly.

Your problem more likely, from your description, seems to be just some control issue. First and foremost, though, is to determine what is causing the compressor to go out on high head.

As a basic ,slow , but logical diagnostic method , You can disconnect the radiant controll , and the domestic ( if you have another source of hot water

let the air heat your home , if it does this without issue you know to contrentrat on the water side (likely )

If it trips again concentrat on the air side controlls/ductwork

First, thanks for all of the great info from all of you!

The air side (left on alone) works fine.

With a reset, the air heats up to 68 then allows the radiant to run.
The radiant (2 zones w/ 2 seperate thermostats) will run as long as the air thermostat is at 68
If the air needs to come on again the system shuts down (the air blows but it is cold and the water heater cools).

I am confident it is the radiant side. When the installer came (the 6th time) he replaced one of 2 valves inside the system (drained freon, replaced & refilled). It worked great for a record 2 days stratight!

Then the High Pressure & Status light blinked in unison for a third day (still seemed to work)

Now it does not work well.

what is the temp of the radiant water?
What size type of tubing is it ?
asking because air in the radiant tubing fits and if its under floor and clear pex you can see air pockets if you look closely
After some thought I would start at the time delay between funtions
When the system goes from radiant to air how long does the compressor shut down for ,should be at least 2 min.
If it seems shorter by more then a few sec. its likely your issue

**what is the temp of the radiant water?**

I have it set to heat up to 70 (the hotwater tank shows about 110 when it is working)

** What size type of tubing is it ?**

It is 1/2".

**if its under floor and clear pex you can see air pockets if you look closely** The pex is in 4" of concrete but I do have 2 manifolds where the pex runs. It is not very clear. I did look for air bubbles and have seen none.

**After some thought I would start at the time delay between funtions**

I think you are on to something there. I just do not know how to set that delay. I would certainly hope the installer would have tried that (but I wouldnt be surprised of any oversight at this point).

Is this something you could explain or possibly share a link to some info?


Thanks again.

Its something that you need to know how to read a schematic to locate
What I would do If you have learned to reset the pressure switch that is
Lower the water temp in the tank to 107, if you can read a schematic and or comfortable with controls/wiring
Ill be happy to help you

Well I have the schematic (from online) and I suppose if you want to try to explain it I would give it a shot.

I have done some electrical (high & low) before.

If it gets too hairy I wont hesitate to defer it to a technician.

post it or mail it to me or the link to it and ill take a look

The link is http://www.waterfurnace.ca/Engineer/Synergy3/Synergy3.pdf

found it , looks like the sequencing delay is done through a circuit board , usualy means not adjustable .
before we assume the board is bad , can you test
attempt to recreate the situation in which it fails ( if you feel comfortable reseting it ) and time the time delay

Would like to add my 2 cents to the Waterfurnace thread on my recent experience with water furnance. Just got off the phone the their director of "customer service" Mr. Waterman and was suprised to find out that waterfurnace has no authorized dealers and pretty much washed their hands from any responsibility.
Now will get down to my real "bash" of the company. I have experienced waterflow/hi temp lock outs on one of my two split units for the last couple of years and until earlier this year we found a leak in the unit itself and resolved. Well a month after finding the resolution to this problem, my compressor in the other unit starts to go bad. Have to have it replaced, but my contractor tells me waterfurnace will only composate for partial replacement of the units and the remaining $700 - $1000 dollars of the replacement cost will be my responsibility and that my best bet in overcoming the addtional cost (paid $13000 for the unit installations (not counting loops)) is to contact Waterfurnace directly.
What a mistake this was:
So I contact their "customer service" to try to get an explaination of these addtional cost, after I just paid extreme cost to get these units in and all the additional electrical cost I am incurring for running on residual system.
What kind of response do I get, "they will look at it", "there techs are looking at it" .... This went on for 1.5 months, with no initiated conversations back to me or even a call, plus bunch of lies that they are looking into it. Well I get my compressor replaced in early June, and still Waterfurnace has done nothing. No visits, no request for service records, nothing. They didn't even start requesting a site-visit from my contractor until June (After the unit is already fixed?).
So I call to talk to the Director of Customer Service today, and they admit no fault on their part and had no problems with the way this situation has been handled - Or the "lack" of handling for the last 4 months.
DO NOT BUY WATERFURNACE EQUIPMENT, IF YOU WANT WARRANTY/CUSTOMER SERVICE/QUALITY EQUIPMENT/PIECE OF MIND!!!! THEY ARE NOT THERE FOR SUPPORT OF THEIR SYSTEMS, ONLY TO MAKE THE QUICK BUCK!!!!!!!!!!
THIS IS ONE OF THE WORST EXPERIENCES I HAVE EVER HAD WITH CUSTOMER SERVER!!!!

Don't know how I missed this (Holly is in my area), I sent a PM, but J has not been active since January. Did you complete a diagnosis privately GF?
Reagle,
where exactly was the leak? How old was the equipment?
J

I have had the same terrible experience. So much so that I decided to doucment it all and build a site describing my issues since I was not able to get anywhere with WaterFurnace or my dealer. http://www.waterfurnaceproblems.com