Hi,
I have built a new 2500 house in upsate New York with a closed loop geothermal heating cooling system. There is a 5 ton Climatemaster TMW060 with a desuperheater, 40 gallon buffer tank. The heating is thru radiant pipes in the floor.
During the heating season the desuperheater water temp is 160 degrees, whilst the radiant supply is max around 100 degrees. The electric bills are ridiculously high, and the house is usually cold at night. The compressor of the climatemaster rins non stop, and one capicitor has already been replaced. The system is just over a year old.
Should the desuperheater be disconnected? How is this done? How does one get a climatemaster rep to visit and look at the issues? The only residential reps they list are in the midwest!!

Thanks!

Where is the installing contractor?

A competent tech from a geo contractor who installs another brand can almost certainly answer most of your questions. Several brands share similar innards and all utilize identical methods of heat transfer.

More info is needed. Especially on the house. What is the load, design temps etc. Is it running 24/7? Is it running because it cannot keep up with the load? Or is something wrong with the heatpump. Detail about the radiant system would help, too. Can you give a hint who your installer was? I have several radiant system with geo from the same installer south of Rochester which keep failing. They make the same mistakes over and over again.

The engineer checked the heating loads and said the unit was optimized. The problem is the desuperheater, which he says robs the house of the heating in the winter months, since it gives preference to the hot water. The installer can only disconnect the desuperheater pump, which doesn't seem to be doing much. We have lots of hot water, but not enough heat. The compressor runs non stop after the sun sets.
Maybe something is wrong with the heat pump. The installer is saying that there is nothing wrong with compressor running non stop, but engineer says that that should not be the case.

Seems to me that the 160° on the DHW is way to high.
And your buffer tank could be a little small.(60 or above would be better)
Piping diagrams could help or photos...
Do you have one or two tanks?

Yeah I agree, 160 is way to high. Wonder what temp the HWG is set to? (DIP SW11 ON=150F OFF=125F, latest documentation on CM website) SW12 controls the HWG itself, turning it ON will DISABLE the HWG. So to "disconnect" the HWG is as easy as flipping the DIP switch. Any reason your installer didn't suggest at least trying that?

How is your radiant floor heated?  ie, radiant pipes in concrete, staple-up, radiant pipes in gypcrete, or......

Hi,
dgbair - Where can I get the link to the wiring diagram. Installer just wants to add addl hot water or electric coils in the ducts!
The radiant is in the concrete on the first floor, with 3" below the slab. The second floor has tile floors and the radiant is in the setting bed.
Thanks! I know this is a great system, just trying to get the compressor from running non stop and to stop the HWG.

http://www.climatemaster.com/index/res_lit (TMW Installition Manual) High voltage present behind panel...

40 gallon buffer tank. The heating is thru radiant pipes in the floor.
During the heating season the desuperheater water temp is 160 degrees,

When you say "buffer tank", does that mean you have another tank in addition to the 40 gal one for domestic hot water heating?

Is the temp of the buffer tank getting to 160F or is that the temp of the water exiting the desuperheater and how did you measure it?

The buffer tank is dedicated for the radiant heating pipes. There is another tank for hot water, heated by solar thermal set up, which functions quite well.

The temperature of the radiant supply lines is getting to around 100 degrees. The water exiting the desuperheater, HWG out is from 140 - 160 degrees. The HWG dumps the water into the domestic water tank.

The HWG dumps the water into the domestic water tank.

OK, so what is the volume of the "domestic water tank" and does it have resistance elements in it? Do I understand correctly that the desuperheater dumps directly into that tank?

And is that "domestic water tank" also the one heated by solar thermal, or is there yet another tank for that?

One issue that I see is that the desuperheater is putting out 160 deg temps on a TMW060. This cannot be adjusted unless the thermistor is removed. It is factory set at 125 Deg. This temperature can rise if the plumbing to the Dom buffer tank is improperly run and cold water is directly piped through the heat pump. The real issue here is the inability to get heat into the house. Check the water flow out of the buffer tank to the HP. This should be 15 GPM. When water flow is less, than the heat cannot be transferred to the buffer tank and cannot keep up with the demand of the house. Lower flow will also cause higher head temperatures in the HP and this can blow Caps.

Hi dgbair. My Climatemaster is rev 2009b . It does not have the Dib component, only the CSM. Any idea how to turn off the DSH in this config
thanks

I meant cxm

With the new CM control boards you can set high output max of 150 F. The switchover was made May 2009. When was your house built? The most common reason why DSH gets that high is thermal siphoning if your DSH line does not have a checkvalve. Keep in mind that the control board only shuts of the pumping between DSH and buffer tank. The DSH keeps running and can transfer more heat into the tank via thermal siphoning. Shutting of any DSH will not significantly increase your heat output to the floors. You need to provide more info. That your buffer tank runs only at 100 degrees suggests that you have radiant in a concrete slab. Please provide more info. Does the heatpump really run 24/7? More details on the radiant system. Temperatures of incoming and outgoing water. Thanks

The CM unit was bought in Jan 2010, and installed in March 2010. Yes, the heating is via radiant pipes. First floor is slab on grade. There is 3" insulation, 6" concrete slab, then a 2" topping slab in which the radiant is buried. Tile is the floor finish. Smaller second floor is conventional wood frame construction, with a topping slab with radiant pipes and tile finish.

The compressor does run non stop, and that can't be good.

Temperatures are in the foll range :

Ground Source water/gylcol in = 49.50
Ground Source Out = 47.50
CM Load water in = 102.30
CM Load water out = 106.30
Buffer Tank supply = 100 - 106 (2 zones)
HWG in = 100
HWG out = 155

Thanks

Do you know ground loop side GPM?

I have been measuring the temperature readings with an Extech Hand held thermometer. What can I use to measure the GPM?

senr, can you explain how your domestic hot water is set up.