Is it a mistake to use a non-Waterfurnace thermostat on a Waterfurnace unit? I had a new Waterfurnace NDV049A111CTL installed in December 2010 to replace a 20 year old Waterfurnace that had an exchanger leak. My December electric usage was a bit better than the previous December for about the same temperatures. However in January'11 I used over 1,000 kWHrs more electric than Januar'10, despite the fact that Jan'11 (-2.9C) was ever so slightly warmer than Jan'10 (-3.1C). Turns out that there was a hard fault on the Waterfurnace unit all of January (Water Flow light blinking - no other light blinking). I did not know this as the unit with the light is in the basement, and the installer installed a Honeywell Thermostat. He said he has had problems with WF thermostats. The Honeywell thermostat does not have fault indicators. According to the installer, my system was in hard fault mode all of January (and most of February) and was generating heat via the electric package. The house held temperature until the outside temp dropped to single digits Fahrenheit. Then the (10kW) electric package could not keep up and I found the red blinking Water Flow light. The installer had me reset the unit by powering the whole thing off at the breaker panel. Unfortunately the unit faulted, again with Water Flow, a few days later. The installer is diagnosing this now – he suspects there is something wrong with the system board. I want some sort of “in my face” diagnostic for faults. A warning light on the thermostat seems like the best option to me. So, questions: 1 – is there a better “in my face” diagnostic for faults than a warning light on the thermostat? 2 – Assuming that WF has a warning light on their thermostats, do you have problems w/ WF thermostats? Why would I not want one?

Both of my "main" thermostats emit a red light when emerg heat is on. Is there a better way, not sure but the little red light equals $$ I don't want to give up and get's my attention. My 2nd floor thermostat is a "Hydroheat", the main floor main thermostat (I have radiant floor zones) is a "Robertshaw". I'd look for a thermostat that simply indicates when your air handler emrg heat coils are on. When my low flow light blinks, I call my installer - Good luck lowering your loop fluid freezing point.

GreenSWOhio,

What is the full model number of the Honeywell thermostat thermostat that you have? It may, or may not, have an alert feature. If it does, it may not be wired. On our thermostat, there is an "L" terminal (for Lockout.)

I have a Honeywell Prestige that has a lockout alert feature, but I discovered (when we had a lockout) that the alert feature was not wired initially. Our installer has since wired it for me at my request. A lockout alert (properly wired) is worth every penny.

Dang! My VisionPro 8000 ALSO has an L terminal....NOT hooked up!! And there are a couple extra unused wires in the thermostat wire.  I guess I just connect the L terminal of the t-stat to the L terminal on the HZ432 (zoning panel) and when the panel registers a lockout due to DATS or OT (OT unused), it will register on the T-stat?

 My lockouts might have been noted, too. Geome. You're awesome.  I love this forum!

Blush! Others here get a lot of credit for helping me with this.

I had our installer hook up our L terminal with an isolation relay to be on the safe side. The Honeywell Prestige puts out a signal (voltage) when in Emergency Heat mode and no one (including Honeywell and WF at the time) could tell us what this was for, or guarantee that this would not damage our system. I didn't want to take a chance, so we went with the isolation relay from WF.

I would suggest the installer set this up for you guys. That way, just in case something gets messed up, you didn't do it.

P.S. I never did get a buzzer to work signaling a lockout.

Thanks for the comments.

Geome: I have a Honeywell Vision PRO IAQ. The operating manual does not include much information that cannot be derived from attempting to use the device.

Thanks Again,

GreenSWOhio

Posted By decafdrinker on 23 Feb 2011 08:37 PM
I guess I just connect the L terminal of the t-stat to the L terminal on the HZ432 (zoning panel) and when the panel registers a lockout due to DATS or OT (OT unused), it will register on the T-stat?

I assume (remember that I am not a pro) that there needs to be a signal from the geothermal system to the zoning panel as well.  On our Envision system, there is a LO (lock out) terminal on the unit.  Have a professional do this for you guys to prevent possibly damaging your system!  My advise is NOT to do this yourselves.

I looked at the expense as money well spent as insurance (that I wouldn't inadvertently damage the system myself), keeping the system warranty intact (by having a qualified person do the work) and as future savings on auxiliary electric heat since I would be notified sooner (by the thermostat) in the event of a system lockout.

Posted By GreenSWOhio on 23 Feb 2011 10:45 PM
I have a Honeywell Vision PRO IAQ. The operating manual does not include much information that cannot be derived from attempting to use the device.

I don't see an "L" terminal in the online manual that I looked at (search for installation manuals, not user or operator manuals), but I did see a note about error code "040 Compressor should be running but it is not".  I'm not sure if this error would appear due to a system lockout (but what else would it be for?)  You may want to ask your installer to find out if this is working as intended with your system.  Maybe a pro here has experience with this and will respond.

P.S.  Our Prestige manual stinks as well.

I have the VisionPro IAQ too. It looks like the wiring panel has an L terminal for monitoring the system. See page 4 of: http://www.forwardthinking.honeywell.com/related_links/thermostats/visionpro_iaq/install/69_1823efs.pdf

Mine is not hooked up either. I have a 4tom CM Tranq 27. Any help in what terminal to connect for the CM unit to this "L" terminal would be greatly appreciated.

Unless Honeywell has changed the Vision Pro IAQ the "L" terminal can not be wired. If it is wired your stat will give you an error message.

Bergy

Posted By chrisbiker on 24 Feb 2011 02:26 PM
I have the VisionPro IAQ too. It looks like the wiring panel has an L terminal for monitoring the system.

I looked at this manual: http://www.ntsupply.com/files/products/EIMINSTALL.pdf

The L terminal is not listed in this manual.  There seem to be different versions out there.

There is mention of Fault LED in the thermostat wiring section in the Tranquility manual (for specific thermostats) that I just looked at online, but talk to your installer/CM technical support for guidance.

Try this, page 22, last paragraph. ...very slightly better than nothing.

http://customer.honeywell.com/techlit/pdf/68-0000s/68-0287.pdf

I have the Envision (WF Heat Pump) installation manual.

In the instructions for the Thermostat Installation, it says to connect the system monitor to L terminal.

There is an L terminal in the Equipment Interface Module (the component of the thermostat that is mounted on the furnace in the basement). However the VisionPRO IAQ EIM installation manual says nothing about connecting the L terminal to the System Monitor.

I am going to give the situation back to my installer. The bottom line is that I want to know when the Waterfurnace is experiencing a fault. My January electric bill was incredible because while I thought I was using Geothermal I was in fact using electric backup.

Thx for the advice,

GreenSWOhio

Posted By GreenSWOhio on 24 Feb 2011 07:41 PM
I am going to give the situation back to my installer. The bottom line is that I want to know when the Waterfurnace is experiencing a fault.

This is prudent.  Please let us know how you make out.

   For the installers here:

Do you typically enable the thermostat lockout alert as part of your normal installation (when the thermostat has such an alert feature)?

If the thermostat doesn't have an alert, do you let the homeowner know that this feature may be beneficial to them (so they can choose a different thermostat that has this feature)?

If I knew this wasn't going to be included as part of the installation, I would have paid more to have it included at the time of installation.  For someone who checks their thermostat regularly, this seems like a case of pay now, or possibly pay a lot more later (for emergency heat) in the event of an unnoticed lockout during heating season.

I want to know when the Waterfurnace is faulted so the Waterfurnace does not sustain any damage. I only got 20 years service out of the last Waterfurnace (in relatively mild SW Ohio) and I'd like to get 30 out of this one.

GreenSWOhio

My understanding is that the unit locks out to prevent damage to the unit. As far as I know, this only results in high aux usage (and electric bills) in heating mode, and the system will not cool if the lockout is in cooling mode. Am I missing anything?

Being notified by the thermostat of a lockout may alert the occupants of a problem possibly days or even months (in the event of a shoulder season) ahead of noticing the problem by means of a comfort issue or a high electric bill. I also want to know of a lockout as soon as possible so I can get in line in case the installer is backed up, and to get off of emergency heat as soon as possible.

GreenSWOhio,

Any thermostat may be used with your WaterFurnace unit, as long as it meets the thermostat requirements listed below. We would suggest contacting your installing contractor to discuss your options for a thermostat which will alert you when the unit is running on emergency heat.

-Heat Pump Compatible
-24V
-3 heat, 2 cool
-18 gauge wire

WaterFurnace International, Inc.

When the Water Flow fault light was on, the unit made a clicking noise, about once every 5 seconds. I suspected it was a relay or a valve opening/closing. I don't know what was going on. My installer heard it - he couldn't explain it. But I doubt it was enhancing the life of the unit.