Geothermal on Standby Generator
Last Post 15 Sep 2011 09:59 AM by joe.ami. 10 Replies.
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kiphornUser is Offline
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29 Aug 2011 03:10 PM
After Irene passed through and we lost power again, I'm thinking it's time to install a standby generator. I haven't decided on fuel but I'm leaning toward diesel since I have diesel around for my tractor. How much power will it take to operate my Tranquility 27 4 ton unit? It has auxillary heat and a desuperheater. Is there a chart somewhere that I can print out for the electrician that details the power requirements?


Kip Horn<br><br>Tranquility 27 (June 2008)
art1976User is Offline
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29 Aug 2011 05:22 PM
4 ton compressor motor around 18 - 23 amps ( 4200 -5400 watts) this would be full load amps depends on eff of the motor, have your electrican put an amp probe on your unit and see what it does draw
for the strip heaters you need to check the tag on your unit for the wattage

single ph motors have a large inrush when starting, 10 kw generator would be the smallest I would buy to run this unit and your house
you don't want to get too big of a generator because it will cost to much to run during idle times



tigerfan6User is Offline
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29 Aug 2011 05:41 PM

Motor inrush current can be 5-10 times full load amps (FLA on the compressor nameplate)  A generator has to be sized to large enough to generate the inrush amperage to start your motor.  Generally, a generator sized at 5 times motor FLA will start the motor, but not always.  The best way is to take your motor specs to your generator guy and get him to specify a generator that will start it.

My AC uses about 14 amps running, but pulls 99 starting.

The generator at my house is sized at 4 times FLA and does fine on the AC, but the lights blink and the generator growls when the AC kicks in, which is normal.  It's a 12 KW with a 3 ton AC, but that 12 KW rating is on propane, it's only 10.5 KW on natural gas, which is more than enough to continue normal usage at our house when the lights go out.  Incidentally, my AC was recently replaced, and the new one creates a greater inrush, even though it draws less FLA.  The reason is the design of high efficiency motors, they draw more starting current, not less.

There are some residential AC manufacturers who have a soft start for their AC units.  A softstart limits inrush current.  It takes longer for the motor to get to speed, but it requires less peak current to get there.  With a softstart, some generators sized at 2 times FLA can start a motor.  Another option is a hard start capacitor, which will also help, but not as much as a soft start

Also, your Tranquility 27 is two stage.  If your unit will start on the lower stage you will have a little less load.

Check with just about any stand by generator manufacturer's web site, and I am sure you will find a sizing guide.

There's a good one here:  http://www.gillettegenerators.com/sizing/sizing02.html

No, I don't sell those.



joe.amiUser is Offline
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31 Aug 2011 11:59 AM
Better yet, let's see what your heat pump manufacturer has to say:

Attachment: Generator_Sizing_Sheet.pdf

Joe Hardin
www.amicontracting.com
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engineerUser is Offline
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03 Sep 2011 08:32 PM
Is that a WF or CM sizing doc?

The answer may not matter because both share the same compressors and I believe the softstart option originates with the compressor mfg.

Unless a multistage unit operates more than one compressor it is a myth that a two stage unit has lower inrush in low stage. Staging is accomplished via varying the gas path. These systems use a single compressor operating at the same speed and starting in the same manner. Running load varies by stage but inrush / LRA does not.


Curt Kinder <br><br>

The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it, ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is - Winston Churchill <br><br><a href="http://www.greenersolutionsair.com">www.greenersolutionsair.com</a>
joe.amiUser is Offline
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04 Sep 2011 08:11 AM
yep sorry, WF wrote the table, but I offered it as a resource for generator size without "intellistart".
j


Joe Hardin
www.amicontracting.com
We Dig Comfort!
www.doityourselfgeothermal.com
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propaneBeGoneUser is Offline
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14 Sep 2011 07:52 AM
Joe, The WF Intellistart chart is instructive. It looks much more practical to use a standby generator with a soft start config. I see WF offers this as a factory or retrofit option for Envision and Synergy units. Does Climatemaster offer a softstart option? (TMW-060) A cursory search of CM site didn't show anything on soft start


joe.amiUser is Offline
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14 Sep 2011 09:57 AM
Call your dealer.
CM does have a comparable unit. There are aftermarket ones as well.
j


Joe Hardin
www.amicontracting.com
We Dig Comfort!
www.doityourselfgeothermal.com
Dig Your Own Comfort!
propaneBeGoneUser is Offline
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14 Sep 2011 06:07 PM
I did and they do.  thanks


engineerUser is Offline
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15 Sep 2011 12:06 AM
Since WF and CM use the same Copeland compressors, I'm willing to bet that their respective soft start options are essentially similar, possibly even identical, and that they originate with the compressor mfg..


Curt Kinder <br><br>

The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it, ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is - Winston Churchill <br><br><a href="http://www.greenersolutionsair.com">www.greenersolutionsair.com</a>
joe.amiUser is Offline
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15 Sep 2011 09:59 AM
Don't always, but I gotta give WF props on this one, I know of no such generator sizing chart from CM. While they may have one there's a reason I'm aware of WF's and not CM's.


Joe Hardin
www.amicontracting.com
We Dig Comfort!
www.doityourselfgeothermal.com
Dig Your Own Comfort!
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