gsjohnny
New Member
Posts:4
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| 14 Aug 2010 05:53 PM |
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we are going to build a new house in wales, ma in 2012 in a small. small town = long time for permits.
we are interested in a steel frame home. we have a house plan that we liketo use. but i cannot find
anybody around here that has any experience with this. so anybody have any help for us?
thanks
john |
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JeffD
Basic Member
Posts:282
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| 14 Aug 2010 07:33 PM |
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John,
Residential steel framers are few and far between, but commercial steel framers are much more common. You might want to ask a commercial framer to bid your project.
Good Luck! |
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| Metal SIP Building Designer<br>jeff@panelfusion(dot com) See us on Facebook |
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glenfotre
New Member
Posts:75
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| 14 Aug 2010 07:57 PM |
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Out in our neck of the woods, the only steel frame that I would consider is incorporated into a SIPs panel which provides both strength and great insullation. You might want to check to see if this product is available where you are. |
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Alton
Veteran Member
Posts:2164
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| 14 Aug 2010 10:40 PM |
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John,
Do you want to use steel for its ability to be designed to withstand strong winds? That is why I have used steel. It certainly was not because it cost less. By the way, I do not sell any products but I am curious about why you chose steel. |
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Residential Designer &
Construction Technology Consultant -- E-mail: Alton at Auburn dot Edu Use email format with @ and period .
334 826-3979 |
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gsjohnny
New Member
Posts:4
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| 14 Aug 2010 11:23 PM |
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building a new house on the lake is my wife's idea. currently we have 11 acres, 1500 sf house, 1600 sf garage for me. even thought the lake property has 3 acres, wetlands becomes a problem for a garage for me. the new house is single story 30 x 80 with a 2 car garage. i want a 12' foundation with as few lolly columns as possible. that will be my garage. a guy has to have room for his toys. i think steel frame will allow me to accomplish this. steel frame is lighter(?) for the floor plan than wood.
opens for any suggestions.
john |
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Alton
Veteran Member
Posts:2164
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| 15 Aug 2010 08:38 AM |
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John,
Thanks for the response. Sometimes posting why and how leads to more qualified comments. |
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Residential Designer &
Construction Technology Consultant -- E-mail: Alton at Auburn dot Edu Use email format with @ and period .
334 826-3979 |
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Jelly
Veteran Member
Posts:1017
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| 15 Aug 2010 10:47 PM |
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Learn something new every day... John, I think you are referring to a Lally column? I googled it as I was not familiar. Did you have your plans engineered yet? Is the 12 foot foundation a walk-in basement? |
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Alton
Veteran Member
Posts:2164
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| 16 Aug 2010 07:36 AM |
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John,
You mention that you want to have as few lolly (lally) columns as possible. A spec builder might use lally columns but with a span of no more than 30' there is no reason to use lally columns other than to save a few bucks. If you do not want any lally columns in the basement then use a construction technology that does not need them. You are not limited to using a steel super structure in order to avoid lally columns. Now if you just want to use steel, then you should give a lot of thought as to how you will insulate the frame because steel will conduct a lot of energy unless it is thermally broken. Dana1 can correct me, but I would not use steel studs, etc. in your climate unless they were covered on the outside with at least three inches of polystyrene. |
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Residential Designer &
Construction Technology Consultant -- E-mail: Alton at Auburn dot Edu Use email format with @ and period .
334 826-3979 |
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arkie6
Veteran Member
Posts:1453
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| 16 Aug 2010 07:53 AM |
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Open web plated 4x2 wood floor trusses could work here to clear span 30' (depth and spacing would need to be engineered). What you use for your exterior framing (wood, steel, SIP, ICF, etc.) has little if any bearing on the floor loading. Wood roof trusses would allow the roof loads to be carried solely by the exterior framing. |
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cmkavala
Veteran Member
Posts:4327
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| 16 Aug 2010 07:59 AM |
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Posted By gsjohnny on 14 Aug 2010 11:23 PM
building a new house on the lake is my wife's idea. currently we have 11 acres, 1500 sf house, 1600 sf garage for me. even thought the lake property has 3 acres, wetlands becomes a problem for a garage for me. the new house is single story 30 x 80 with a 2 car garage. i want a 12' foundation with as few lolly columns as possible. that will be my garage. a guy has to have room for his toys. i think steel frame will allow me to accomplish this. steel frame is lighter(?) for the floor plan than wood.
opens for any suggestions.
john John; Dietrichs 14" / 14 ga. steel "Trade Ready" joist system will allow you to do this  |
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| Chris Kavala<br>[email protected]<br>1-877-321-SIPS<br /> |
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Alton
Veteran Member
Posts:2164
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| 16 Aug 2010 09:39 AM |
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John,
You mentioned a sinlgle-story home and 12' foundation. Is this a single-story home over a basement? And you want the basement to have a 12' ceiling? |
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Residential Designer &
Construction Technology Consultant -- E-mail: Alton at Auburn dot Edu Use email format with @ and period .
334 826-3979 |
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ilgeo
Basic Member
Posts:180
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| 16 Aug 2010 10:29 PM |
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I would not use column spacing as a reason to use steel framing. 1st using roof trusses will take the most dead load off the interior walls. Then you will save very little by using steel studs but u will get a better wall. you can easily get by with 2 or 3 columns with truss roof and conventional floor using Ijoists and a steel main beam....to eliminate them all together gets expensive to end up with a good solid floor ...Eric ps: where are you located i may be able to refer you to someone who can help you out. |
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cmkavala
Veteran Member
Posts:4327
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| 17 Aug 2010 07:57 AM |
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I have personally used Dietrich's for a 29 foot clear span, know that it can be done at 30 feet @ 16" oc, and a maximum clear span of 36 feet, which is pretty amazing at only 14" high  |
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| Chris Kavala<br>[email protected]<br>1-877-321-SIPS<br /> |
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ilgeo
Basic Member
Posts:180
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| 17 Aug 2010 08:58 AM |
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Chris how long ago and how much? I ask because I worked on a project last year and was told they were very expensive don't remember how "very expensive" they were though. What was the dead and live load? How much deflection is in the floor? And lastly what did you use to waterproof your foundation?.........Eric |
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cmkavala
Veteran Member
Posts:4327
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| 17 Aug 2010 09:50 AM |
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Posted By ilgeo on 17 Aug 2010 08:58 AM
Chris how long ago and how much? I ask because I worked on a project last year and was told they were very expensive don't remember how "very expensive" they were though. What was the dead and live load? How much deflection is in the floor? And lastly what did you use to waterproof your foundation?.........Eric Eric; first, photo was from Dietrich's website, I use the Trade Ready floor on an ongoing basis whenever we do a floor system where SIPs are not practical. We view termite, mold, fire and rot resistance as an important aspect of our total building system. Spans were based L/360 deflection with a 10# DL & 40# LL. We build in several states and cost will vary geographically, but in general will be between $3.00 - $4.50 per lineal foot of joist depending on thickness and gage We do not do many foundations in our area, I have only done one full basement in Florida and I can't recall the water proofing we used |
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| Chris Kavala<br>[email protected]<br>1-877-321-SIPS<br /> |
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ilgeo
Basic Member
Posts:180
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| 17 Aug 2010 11:10 AM |
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Thanks Chris. I would think that these would be a good product for Johns application. |
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Bruce Frey
Basic Member
Posts:429
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| 17 Aug 2010 11:40 AM |
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Posted By cmkavala on 17 Aug 2010 07:57 AM
I have personally used Dietrich's for a 29 foot clear span, know that it can be done at 30 feet @ 16" oc, and a maximum clear span of 36 feet, which is pretty amazing at only 14" high
Be careful to match deflection criteria of the finish materials to be used with the deflection of the structure. If you are using large pieces of stone flooring on a l/360 structure, you could have cracking. l/500 or even l/720 might be more appropriate in such a situation. My "rule of thumb" to determine the approximate depth of a floor/roof structure is to divide the span by 24 (e.g., 12" depth for a 24' span). This puts you in the right ballpark for l/240 - l/360. You can vary load capacity by adjusting the spacing of members, but deflection criteria usually drives the depth. Long spans can also be bouncy. I would be uncomfortable pushing a 14" deep beam to 36' (actually I migh be a bit nevous at the stated 29') for this reason. Cutting the span in half increases the stiffness x 4 (IIRC). Sometimes intermediate support is used more for deflection control than load carrying. Bruce |
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JeffD
Basic Member
Posts:282
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| 17 Aug 2010 11:48 AM |
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  . Chris, I have used this product successfully on a few jobs. Its called JoistRite by Marinoware What do you think of it? One thing I have noticed is because the webs of the joist are weaker they require blocking between joists at 7'-0" on center. Also the spray foam was an attempt by the contractor to dampen the reverberant quality of the floor. |
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| Metal SIP Building Designer<br>jeff@panelfusion(dot com) See us on Facebook |
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cmkavala
Veteran Member
Posts:4327
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| 17 Aug 2010 01:36 PM |
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Jeff;
I am familiar with the Joist Rite system and had considered using it. They are a little lighter than Trade ready, but decided against using it because of the blocking @ 7ft. centers was a little more labor intensive. I thought I remember some kind of crush block needed for end too? |
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| Chris Kavala<br>[email protected]<br>1-877-321-SIPS<br /> |
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ilgeo
Basic Member
Posts:180
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| 17 Aug 2010 04:52 PM |
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Ditto on deflection not only for flooring type but also for perceived quality, that would be why my first choice is a properly sized steel beam and welded columns with TJIs. nothing against steel floor trusses but all the residential trades seem to be used to conventional framing. Plus you can use the beam as a crane of sorts with a trolley and a chain fall, just factor that into the sizing. |
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