Basement insulation
Last Post 03 Nov 2020 06:31 PM by Mogana. 5 Replies.
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msells21User is Offline
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17 Oct 2018 02:37 PM
I am working on finishing my basement in my 1956 brick and block house in Zone 5 northern Illinois.

I was doing some research on insulating between the joists (no rim joists on brick and block) and was led to this forum through this thread which had some of the information that I was looking for, but unfortunately a few broken links.

I am facing roughly the same dilemma of that OP except the upstairs walls of my brick and block house are insulated (approx. 1.5in paper-faced fiberglass?) and the wall cavities from upstairs are not open to the basement (as far as I can tell).

The joist area and approximately the top 16in of my basement walls are brick and are above grade. The lower portion of the wall that is below grade is poured concrete.

My only moisture issues are where the brick mortar meets the top of the concrete wall which will be addressed by a masonry professional. The previous owner had used waterproofing paint on approximately 50% of the walls. I had planned to apply Drylok paint to the rest just to be safe (and to keep my OCD happy). I then planned to install 2in XPS between the joists and against the brick. This would bring the areas with brick to be flush with the concrete walls below and then I planned to use 1in XPS floor to ceiling around the entire basement and finish off with insulated stud walls.

My main concern (along with the OP in the other thread) is moisture around the rim joists. If I seal this area with the Drylok and XPS, am I risking driving the moisture from the brick into the joists? The joists appear to be sitting directly on the brick with nothing in between. Also, any gaps between the joists and brick - should I seal them to prevent cold air from coming through and condensing on the warm joists?

I think the closed cell spray foam might be my solution here but I did not follow the application in the other thread completely and the link to the pictures are broken.

Any help or advice would be greatly appreciated. I am relatively new to renovations but I am doing my best to learn all I can and most importantly, to do things right the first time. This will not be my forever home but I want to make sure that it can be for whoever is next in line. I've attached some pictures that can hopefully clarify my question.

[IMG]http://i64.tinypic.com/2kowtd.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i64.tinypic.com/29w62r5.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i65.tinypic.com/auzdyd.jpg[/IMG]


Dana1User is Offline
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17 Oct 2018 06:24 PM
Drylock isn't going to be a problem (it's still somewhat vapor permeable even though it blocks liquid moisture) but the insulation might be.

With masonry-embedded joists it's safer to leave some clearance around the wood with no insulation so that the embedded wood stays warmer (=drier) in winter. Leave at least an inch of clearance. It'll be a cold spot in the wall/floor, but the floor joist ends are less likely to develop rot issues.

Don't use XPS- it's only warranteed to R4.5/inch (read the fine print), and is blown with severely climate damaging HFC blowing agents. Polyiso will do better inch-for-inch, even reclaimed 2lb fiber faced roofing polyiso, at less than 1/3 the cost. Look for sources here:

https://chicago.craigslist.org/search/sss?query=rigid+insulation

https://rockford.craigslist.org/search/sss?query=rigid+insulation

https://quadcities.craigslist.org/search/sss?query=rigid+insulation

IRC code min for basements in zone 5 & higher is R15 continuous insulation, which would take 2.75" of roofing polyiso, which can be mounted to the wall with 1x4 furring through-screwed with 4.5-5" masonry screws. The foam needs a timed fire barrier such as half-inch gypsum between the indoors & foam, which can be mounted onto the furring. If you'd prefer, the same performance can be had with 1" of polyiso and an R11-R15 fiberglass insulated non-structural 2x4 studwall, no vapor barriers. Don't skip the exterior foam, or the above grade portion can collect enough moisture/frost over the winter to create a mold problem- it needs to be at least R5 to keep the fiberglass & studs warm enough to prevent that. If the basement has a history of flooding stop the polyiso a bit above the high tide mark and continue down with EPS. (EPS and polyiso are blown with enormously friendlier pentane.)

If studwall, put an inch of EPS under the bottom plate of the studwall and the slab. This keeps the stud warm enough to prevent summertime moisture accumulation in the wood from contact with the colder slab. With an inch of EPS under the plate it doesn't have to be pressure treated, since EPS won't wick ground moisture either.
msells21User is Offline
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18 Oct 2018 01:41 AM
With leaving a gap between the foam and the joists, how should I approach the insulation in the joist cavities? I was planning on installing fiberglass batts for noise insulation and to keep the upstairs as warm as I can. I would assume then not to shove the batts all the way up to the foam?

The XPS ship has already sailed as the previous owner had already installed quite a bit (albeit incorrectly) and also left behind some extra as well. I will probably stick with it because I don't want to figure out how to get rid of it or waste it all.

I plan to do the stud wall with R13 batts. Even with a guaranteed R4.5 that should still get me over the requirement correct? I might have enough 3/4in XPS leftover to go over the 1in, if necessary.

Any thoughts on sealing the gaps between the brick and the joists? Leave them open for drying or seal them up to keep the warm air from entering?
DilettanteUser is Offline
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18 Oct 2018 09:46 AM
With structural brick walls you need to assess how wet they get (or are going to get).

You don't just want to do something like cover them in spray foam and let it go. Because it basically cuts off part of the brick's drying mechanism.

During the summer it isn't as much of a problem, because it's usually sufficiently warm and dry to allow the brick to dry fully (if not evenly).

During the winter though, you get problems with bricks staying damp on the inside, then being destroyed through differential expansion/contraction in successive freeze-thaw cycles, as there isn't enough heat coming through the wall to allow it to offload moisture in the "back" of the brick.

Dana1User is Offline
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18 Oct 2018 06:33 PM
Posted By msells21 on 18 Oct 2018 01:41 AM
With leaving a gap between the foam and the joists, how should I approach the insulation in the joist cavities? I was planning on installing fiberglass batts for noise insulation and to keep the upstairs as warm as I can. I would assume then not to shove the batts all the way up to the foam?

The XPS ship has already sailed as the previous owner had already installed quite a bit (albeit incorrectly) and also left behind some extra as well. I will probably stick with it because I don't want to figure out how to get rid of it or waste it all.

I plan to do the stud wall with R13 batts. Even with a guaranteed R4.5 that should still get me over the requirement correct? I might have enough 3/4in XPS leftover to go over the 1in, if necessary.

Any thoughts on sealing the gaps between the brick and the joists? Leave them open for drying or seal them up to keep the warm air from entering?


For the existing XPS derate it to R4.5/inch for dew-point control purposes. So it takes more than an inch on the exterior of a 2x4 batt-insulated walls for dew point control in a US climate zone 5 location, but would have some marging at 1.5" (x R4.5/inch = R6.75, which is more than the R5 minimum.)

There's almost no point to insulating under the floor once the basement walls are insulated. In a tight basement with insulated walls, a 55F slab and a 65F subfloor above it will usually stay above 60F unless leaking a lot of air from the outdoors. Insulating the subfloor between the joists will make the basement colder, but won't move the needle much on the total heating energy use. If there is a heating system down there insulating between the joists can even increase energy use, since the distribution & standby losses to the basement no longer accrue to the heat load of the house upstairs.

Insulate the foundation walls between the joists with the same XPS, leaving a 1.5-2" clearance from the foam to the joists. Stacking it up to get R15 using foam board construction adhesive may or may not be "worth it", but get it to at least R10-ish.
MoganaUser is Offline
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03 Nov 2020 06:31 PM
Hi, i'm new to home renovation service. I started a course few months back which has been a DIY course mainly. And now i'm noticing my basement leaking out moisture due to lack of insulation. So, i am thinking of insulating it myself, though i read a couple of tips share by https://pickmythings.com/basement-encapsulation/ as a clue to basement insulation but still skeptical about it DIY. But if i have to hire a professional i would spend more and that's another big consideration for me. My question, should i do it myself or hiring a professional best?
Pls, i need assist on the way forward......

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