Structural Concrete Insulated Panel SCIP
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HurriQuake HomesUser is Offline
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11 Jun 2010 12:49 PM

Structural Concrete Insulated Panel SCIP

 Friday, June 11, 2010

A repost on a broader forum   

I am building a SCIP System home in Denver I break ground next week 6 -14 -10 and am trying to find history of the system.

I have found data suggesting it was first used in the 40s for fences. In the late 50s or early 60 it was used to build homes.

I am really looking for information from any time period and have asked a number of the current manufacturers for information as well.
Thank you to the responses on the last request but I am only focusing on SCIP system . I think SIP and ICF systems interesting but not as cost efective on the projects I have bid so far.

As this house will be part of a home tour and I am just the curious type I really want to know more about SCIPS history.

Thank everyone Rich  



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21 Jun 2010 07:31 PM
Let us know how it goes. I have seen that system used in Argentina, but not here. I question the wall strength including lintels.


Brad Kvanbek - ICFconstruction.net
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02 Jul 2010 11:17 AM
Which company and SCIP do you plan to use?  Can you give us a website so we can check it out?  The only SCIP that I have used is InSteel (I believe it is now called Tridipanel).  We used rebar and shotcrete instead of precast lintels above openings.  I remember the InSteel system being labor intensive and slower than Aerated Autoclaved Concrete (AAC).


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02 Jul 2010 08:52 PM
Several of us have been involved with SCIPs for some time.  Most projects have been in Texas.  One project was a home built in Crystal Beach which survived Hurricane Ike with very little damage when most home around it were done.
We would be happy to share any and all information about the panels.
You can email me at [email protected]
D Stovall


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03 Jul 2010 04:24 PM
I've seen lots of SCIP (shotcrete/mesh/foam) houses in Panama - they call it M2. Seems to work fine, although the local workers usually aren't familiar with it, so the costs ends up the same as block.





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20 Dec 2011 01:22 PM
At the same cost to block you are light years ahead with the insulation, Hurricane , and earth quake protection.


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20 Dec 2011 01:45 PM
SCIP Panels,

I just sent you a private message.  Click on "Private Messaging" at the top of the forum.  Reply to my e-mail address:

Alton at Auburn dot Edu    Of course, use the correct e-mail format by substituting @ and period.  I use this on the forum so bots can not collect my e-mail address and flood me with SPAM.


Residential Designer & Construction Technology Consultant -- E-mail: Alton at Auburn dot Edu Use email format with @ and period . 334 826-3979
jonrUser is Offline
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20 Dec 2011 04:06 PM

I'd like to see more info and examples of SCIP projects.

A related question - if one bevels (less than roof slope) and seals the foam edges properly, it is possible to leave a concrete roof exposed? Sure, there may be cracks, but the idea is that the foam is the water proof layer and the concrete is the sun proofing layer. Or perhaps with the help of building wrap, glue and a panel that doesn't have steel on the weather side. Stucco over foam walls work, why not roofs?


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20 Dec 2011 04:52 PM
Jonr,

I guess you are familiar with roofs made with this system.  It is known as Wind Resistant Concrete System (WRCS):
http://www.wrcscorp.com/contact.htm

Is there anyone on this forum that can share their experience with the WRCS system?


Residential Designer & Construction Technology Consultant -- E-mail: Alton at Auburn dot Edu Use email format with @ and period . 334 826-3979
jonrUser is Offline
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20 Dec 2011 05:57 PM
Thanks for the link. It's hard to tell for sure, but I think they are covering theirs with tile. But that helped me find this thread: http://www.greenbuildingtalk.com/Forums/tabid/53/aff/4/aft/51860/afv/topic/Default.aspx


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20 Dec 2011 06:15 PM
Wouldn't you consider those SCIP and WRCS similar too and in the same category as BuildDeck, Insul-Deck and LiteDeck? Which is also and ICF?


Brad Kvanbek - ICFconstruction.net
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20 Dec 2011 09:14 PM
The SCIPs and WRCS that I am familiar with are different from ICF EPS/steel decks.  SCIPs and WRCS have many thermal paths (galvanized wire) that extend beyond the foam into the two concrete wythes.  Although I have used Insteel SCIPs, I think the energy savings would be even greater if another layer of foam was added to the exterior before the stucco.


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jonrUser is Offline
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22 Dec 2011 10:16 AM
More foam is always good, but those wires going through the foam don't have a significant thermal effect.


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22 Dec 2011 12:20 PM
The Insteel (now called Tridipanel) system that I used also resulted in removing some EPS foam every place that required rebar.  This reduced the whole wall R-Value.  The foam was melted with a torch so that shotcrete could fully cover the rebar.  A simple solution to this problem that results in reduced R-value is to add foam to the exterior before stucco or use a modified panel that allows space behind the wire mesh for complete concrete coverage of the rebar.  Three quarters of an inch space between the mesh and EPS foam is not enough for good embedding of the rebar.


Residential Designer & Construction Technology Consultant -- E-mail: Alton at Auburn dot Edu Use email format with @ and period . 334 826-3979
SCIP PanelUser is Offline
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22 Dec 2011 08:03 PM
Posted By jonr on 20 Dec 2011 04:06 PM

I'd like to see more info and examples of SCIP projects.

A related question - if one bevels (less than roof slope) and seals the foam edges properly, it is possible to leave a concrete roof exposed? Sure, there may be cracks, but the idea is that the foam is the water proof layer and the concrete is the sun proofing layer. Or perhaps with the help of building wrap, glue and a panel that doesn't have steel on the weather side. Stucco over foam walls work, why not roofs?


Here are some pictures of the roof/sun deck


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22 Dec 2011 08:08 PM



Zero side setback
First level is the garage and mechanical room    

 Second and third are living areas

The roof (4th level) is a sun deck

Wall panels are 9” thick 4’X10,

 Foam / shot crete floors are 12” 4’ X 25’

Foam and shot crete for roof deck is 18” 4’ X 25’



This is far from a controlled test as workers are in ad out all day; some even have a hard time closing the doors all the way.

With lows in the teens, 20s and 30s I turned the heat off last Thursday.

 Until tomorrow I had blue masking tape covering the door bottoms to allow air hoses and electric cords to pass without being damaged.

The interior temperature was in the high 60s when I turned the heat off. It has dropped to 60 and been in the low 70s in the shade and 80s where the sun hits the shot crete walls and floor over the past four days.

 

I only can imagine how a SCIP house could perform if the lot really allowed designing for passive solar?



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26 Dec 2011 03:30 PM


I broke ground on my SCIP home in Panama City Fl in July.  Walls are going up now.  It's all in my blog at:

http://waterfrontbuildinginpanamacity.blogspot.com




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26 Dec 2011 08:43 PM
Thanks for the nice blog. I look forward to hearing more.


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08 Jan 2012 01:36 PM
This is a question for "SCIP Panel"

I'm building a SCIP home in P.C. Florida.  Can you tell me what your maximum unsupported span was for floor and roof panels?


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08 Jan 2012 03:13 PM
Posted By stovalldb on 02 Jul 2010 08:52 PM
Several of us have been involved with SCIPs for some time.  Most projects have been in Texas.  One project was a home built in Crystal Beach which survived Hurricane Ike with very little damage when most home around it were done.
We would be happy to share any and all information about the panels.
You can email me at [email protected]
D Stovall
D Stovall and SCIP Panel,

Which SCIP system did you use?  Was it Tridipanel?



Residential Designer & Construction Technology Consultant -- E-mail: Alton at Auburn dot Edu Use email format with @ and period . 334 826-3979
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