Has anyone worked with Quad-lock? Any input would be great. I am a Union Tile setter in NYC that has pretty much done everything with conrete, motar, thin-set ect ect. And am now in the process of building a new home for myself. I was going to do the foundation (9ft Basement) in block. But am now considering ICF since this will be my primary home. I have received a quote for quad-lock and the system seems pretty easy to install. But i was wondering from the guys that use ICF regularly if they had any comments. My only real concern is that the rep for quad-lock is in CT. Thats probably a 3-4 hour trip if I run into any hurdles. Also my Architect assures me that termites should not concern me. But I took a class to become a Building inspect for a local municipality and during this class I read that ICF are really not a food source for termites but they can burrow threw and make nest that can not be reach by exterminators. and since the ICF goes from footing to sill plate how would you even know they are there until it is to late. Of course sill plates would be pressure treated but I also Thinking about Pressure treated rim Joist if they even exsist for TGI's. Any input would be great. Also I am planning to go to the builders show in Orlando to get info on building my new home. Also does anyone have an Idea about Geo-thermal threads like this one?

From what I recall, Quadlock is a knockdown system. Knockdown systems purport to save a lot of money for the users. I do believe an ICF is an ICF, whether knockdown or factory made.
If the knockdown type of systems interest you, check
www.IntegraSpec.com

However, I do suggest you look into more than one block before making your purchase.
You bring up an interesting point, where the Q rep is 3-4 hours away. I don't think the hours is the problem, as long as they are rtesponsive in the beginning in order to get you going in the right direction.

However, and a big HOWEVER, I am also a big believer in technical help, from simply explaining issues to handholding. Whichever direction you go, make sure you are comfortable wqith the company help...all the time!

I am scheduled to return to IBS again this year, and there are quite a few ICF manufacturers exibiting. As yopu ask around, I may run into you !

A 4.5" SIP makes a great rim joist! They s/b cut to the height of the TJI. You might be able to find one with an exterior PT skin.

You might check over at OurCoolHouse as they are into GeoThermal.

Good Luck!

I am using IntegraSpec's ICF to build all exterior walls of my house. While I have not used other block types, I have to tell you that I am not impressed with this product. The interlock knobbies are easily damaged and don't always fit together well. The integrated plastic "studs" are a joke and don't have NEARLY the holding power of lumber, you have to use a self tapping screw in the summer months to avoid the heat generated by a screw entering the studs from melting them (especially when affixing 2by lumber to a wall section, the studs themselves are so thin as to leave you only with one thread holding (resulting in your fastener often times popping out a thread or two), you have to waste what seems like a tremendous amount of material to ensure that you never span more than 6" between studs and no more than 8" between seams between levels without requiring additional bracing, the foam is not UV resistant (not sure that any are though), the list goes on.

It's a shame that no one showed you hot to correctly use a panel system. We just completed a motel in Tifton using the same block you are using and found it to be very easy to use and install. The web you mentioned was used to fasten bracing to the walls unsupported from below and didn't have the first trouble with screws "melting the ties" in hot weather or pulling out of the tie. It was over 100 here more days than needed this summer during the build. Most all the ICF's on the market have the same or very similar properties. Some are more user friendly than others but when the project is up the end result is the same.

We did a full house using quad lock this summer. About 400 ft of wall two stories. Above grade we used the FS 4 inch panels on the outside. Some time was spent figuring out how get the FS strips close to the corners for the siding.
A sliding saw is a great way to cut the panels. Cut the same size panels for the corners and common seams at one time and number them. Saves time and quailty is much better than a knife cut. Look at using fs panels inside for the bottom and top roll for easy install of trim work. Make sure you check the top wire ties that they are seated in the panel all the way. We had some that must not have and the outside top block pushed out in a wall.
Good luck
Joe Schmitz

Attend the show!!1 Lots of experienced ICFers there! You will get good info!

Most (all) shipments of ICF blocks will have a handfull of blocks damaged during shipement, a quick glance at the blocks prior to placement will let you know what is damaged, cut that nub off -- it will not affect the strength of the ICF system. If you think it might be a problem, strap the foam that is damaged. As for th corner "rolling" -- almost any system will on the "short leg" of the corner. You can use zip-ties to tie the "short leg" of the corner to the next block. If the block next to the corner block is under about 18" you will want to strap it in place. After construction, most ICF (including quadlock) perform good. Tech. support is a key part of a homeowner build. I have stacked/built a handfull of buildings, and a good interlock is key. Check out www.nudura.com for another good block. The screws will pull out of the plastic web if you try to set it with a driver at full speed. Keep in mind you are setting a STEEL screw into a PLASTIC web. #8 drywall screws will work fine.......but go easy.

Ralphy99,

I am an experienced ICF contractor and I haved used about 10 different systems including Quad-Lock.  I can say this... I am not a fan.  The cost is basically the same as a block system, you don't have to spend the extra time to assemble each unit in a block system, and I have not been able to successfully internally vibrate the walls to insure proper concrete consolidation.

I say, look for a block system that you can internally vibrate.  Don't be fooled by sales people who say you can internally vibrate the form, get real proof from watching a contrator install the product.

ICF Contractor

ICF contractor, which state do you live in? Here in MI a good ICF block runs 19.00 for a Straight form, Quad lock sells for 22.00 ea when converted to a 5.33 sq ft. Industry standard. I could live with the fact that you may spend 30% less for a knock down and assemble your self, but surely wouldn't assemble for more money, especially when you don't have corners or brick ledge. Here in MI where brick ledge is common you have to pour a 10" wall with a 6" topper to create the ledge. Now you have purchased another 4" of concrete along with the slow assembly at 22.00 per form, and you still don't have a nail-er if your going above grade, without spending another 4.00 per form. What are you paying for Quad lock in your area that is the same cost per form? And yes I would agree with you it is time consuming and why!

Walltech,

I live in Washington State, in the Puget Sound (Seattle) area. I pay around $3.30 a sqft. That calcs out to about $17.50 per 5.33 sqft which is what I pay for a premium block form (ie Logix, Arrx, or Build Block). These figures are for a 6" core. 8" is about $0.75 a form more.

ICF Contractor

Are you taking the starter track, special corner ties and the other special parts at the top of wall into consideration?

Walltech,

I am including the J-track, all ties, metal corner pieces, the works.

ICF Contractor

I was quoted $13.22 a panel for the Q1 but the panels are 12''X48''X2.25'' which only gives me an area of 4 S/f which breaks down to about $3.30 s/f of wall surface instead of the 16''X48 which is 5.33s/f? And this quote is from Feb 06. My local supplier is about 2 hours from the home build? Very worried about support?

ICF contractor, you are being treated much fairly their in the puget. As I mentioned above the cost here are 22.00 per 5.33 sq. ft. =$4.12 per sq ft.

Ralphy, Is that a completed Q1? with all extra's noted above? Sounds like you need a supplier closer to home. Its worth the money to pay for a good ICF block along with some local support.

I have been an ICF supplier for 3 years now using the Nudura brand. www.nudura.com. This ICF block, I feel, is leaps ahead of the competitors ICF forms. Their forms are 8 ft long and 18 inches tall ( that's 12 sq. ft.per block). They fold flat for shipping, thus saving shipping costs and are much easier to handle. Being 8 feet long you can span most door and window openings with one form. They also eliminate half the horizontal joints and 1/2 the vertical joints of the other forms. This is important because most of the blowouts on any job is on a joint. Oh and these forms also mechanically snap together. The webs go all the way from bottom to top and these are what lock together thus eliminating floating or seperation issues. In high termite infected areas, you canput an inspection band around the structure. Use a 2x4 or 2x6 on the outside of the form. Cut the foam out from behind it and allow the concrete to pour out to it. When you remove the board you will have a nice strip that the termites will have to tunnel out and over thus allowing you to see them.

Just a few comments: On a 9'4" basement a conventional (16" tall) form has 6 horizontal joints and Nudura has 5, hardly half the seams. As far as vertical seams go yes they have less on a large box, but I've sold over 1 million sq ft of wall consisting of 3 brands and have yet to see a head joint blow out. As far as floating and seperation goes that all comes back to the installer, In my "opionion" thats all caused by overtightning of screws on the alignment system.

Dave

Mr. Walltech In the opening statements in this forum the ICF block to compare to is Quad Lock block. These blocks are only 12" tall thus increasing the horizontal joints, as compared to your 16" block. I am simply stating the benefits of a block that I recommend. You can see all the blocks at www.icfshowdown.com. Anyway you look at it or whatever ICF block you decide to use you're to be commended because you are strides ahead of the framed housing industry.

Well I think you should reread your own statement. You are not comparing Nudura to Quad, You said and I quote
"leaps ahead of the competitors forms".

Dave