are there any tricks to installing hardiplank on ICF blocks? I assume you have to pre-drill the planks and screw them instead of nailing? I am attaching to Logix blocks.

Thanks,
Brian

I'm planning on using BuildBlock with Hardiplank siding, and have struggled to find the best answer to that question also. Here's what I've concluded. If someone has a suggestion how to do it better, please say so.

First of all make sure Logix endorses using Hardiplank. Amvic does not, although a couple of local guys say they put Hardiplank on Amvic.

Second, the comments on this forum are mixed about using nails vs screws. Some have reported problems with the plastic webs splitting with nails, but others have said that's only in cold weather. Screws reportedly hold better, but in some blocks ring shank nails seem to hold plenty good enough. A little bit of testing I've done on a BuildBlock form I have seems to indicate RS nails hold good, particularly in the reinforced web part that BB has.

Generally it's recommended, (required ?) to use hot dip galvanized or stainless steel fasteners. Ceramic coated screws exist but I don't know how well they'll hold up in exterior applications.  There are SS screws available with a type 17 point made to install FC siding. You should be able to drive them without predrilling. One problem for me, no one that I can find makes them available strip collated for auto feed screw guns so you have to drive them one at a time. For me that's a major pain. Personally, I don't want to drive hundreds of screws, holding them one at a time to get them started. The closest thing available is strip collated SS FC screws from Milwaukee, but they're for steel studs and won't work in the plastic webs.

8d (.120 dia) HDG RS nails are available bulk and collated for nailers. 2" and 2 1/4" .092", or thereabouts, diameter HDG RS nails are available coil collated for siding nailers. My local lumber guy said most contractors use the smaller diameter nails for Hardi.

I've pretty much decided to buy a Makita AN611 coil siding nailer and use coil collated 2 1/4" .092 HDG RS nails. If it looks like there may be a problem with nails not holding good enough, I'll drive one in every web. The nails are relatively inexpensive and one every 6" should be more than adequate!

HTH,

Grabber manufacturers a cement siding board screw both 1 5/8 and 2 1/4, it is ceramic coated and comes w a self drilling tip. I have used these several times and they work great. They have not caused issue cracking the plastic web. I am unsure if you can get them collated, I have not looked into this.

Nails work just fine but make sure the specific nail your using is tested like Dmaceld recommended above. Personally I would buy a SENCO duraspin cordless, and use the hardi-plank specific screw that's collated. It has a drill point and a counter sink at the top to accept the bugle head.

Dave

I would certainly consider it if I could find the screw! The only such screw I find in the Senco literature, their screw guide specifically, is a 1 1/4" cement backer board screw. I suppose you can use it for FC siding but it's not advertised that way. But for the BuildBlock forms I need a minimum of 2" to fully penetrate the reinforced web section.

Do you know of a 2" or longer Duraspin screw for FC siding that's not shown in their screw guide?

Bulk only, the same as every other dealer I've uncovered.

What ever you do do not do what one contractor in my area just did with our block. He screwed the Certainteed cement board on so tight that he sucked the screw right through the siding even up in the gables where it is wood.


He now wants us to pay for the replacement as he feels it is the fault of the ICF, all I could say was sorry your crew does not know how to install siding , and that he would of had the same problem had his crew put any siding on in this manner.

He has now convinced the lumber company who supplied the siding to pay for half of the cost of replacment as he claims the siding is at fault.

The sub crew he has hired to put the new siding on which by the way is steel siding, is nailing the product on which is what we recommend they are using a roofing nail in a collated system and have backed off the air pressure to get the correct depth on the nail.

Someone recently said that Bostitch has a new barbed nail that is available for just this application. Anyone know of this? We only see screws on Hardi installs here in hurricane country.

ET&F has ICC approval for firing nails through hardi board/certainteed and fastening to steel, I haven't seen code approval for plastic webs. This limits your choice of block to a small few if you want to use the nails

Dmaceld, the screw pullout strength of most plastic webs are sufficient to hold a screw and the spot you speak of in BB was a great idea but may be insignificant for this reason and would rarely work out at the right intervals anyways. A 15/8" screw would be sufficient for most ICF's.

Dave

I would prefer to use screws but based on what experience I've had, which isn't a great deal, installing screws one a time is a royal pain, holding them in place with one hand and the driver in the other, especially Phillips. Star drive are better but even they will tip over while trying to get them started. I would like to find collated screws I can use with my autofeed driver but I can't find anyone who has HDG or SS FC screws in a collated strip. 374' of wall x 8' of siding x 12"/8" = 4500 screws if spaced @ 12" o.c. That's not counting the screws for the Hardipanel on the gable ends. The builder who's working with me says siding crews charge about 50% more for labor to screw Hardi than to nail it.

I drove a 12d HDG RS nail into one of the BB webs the other day. Can't pull it out!

About the intervals. The reinforcements are spaced at 8" vertical so I'm going to install 9 1/4" plank, 8" exposure, locating the bottom course so the nails go into the reinforced area. Unless my block stacking goes way off, things should match all the way to the top!

That's probably the Hurriquake nail by Bostitch. 2 1/2" x .113 and .131. It's a special design ring shank specifically for sheathing. You can see it on the Bostitch web site. I read somewhere a few weeks ago there's only enough for the South right now.

dmaceld, the bottom line is you tested the RS your self and it holds great. I think that answered your question. Most Hardiplank guys are nailing into OSB, with the tyvek or similar covering the wall sheathing the siders can't see the studs and are blind nailing into the sheathing only. My experience has been that nails pull out relatively the same between most plastic ICF webs and 1/2 osb type sheathing. If your layout is working out to hit the reinforced area of BB, you have nothing to worry about.

Dave

I'm experimenting with ring shank nails through hardipanel siding, but into OSB and not the plastic webbing of ICF's.  (hardipanel over SIP wall)

I nailed a scrap of hardipanel to OSB last week using 2 1/2" galvanized ring shanks shot through my hitachi coil siding nailer.  They didn't suck in snug like I'm used to when hitting a stud, but the nails held while I pried the rest of the scrap off with my straight claw hammer.   It's made me consider the nail on method.

Senco 08D175S, Square drive, collated, stainless steel, ~$80/1,000. I have installed Hardie over Amvic. When I called Hardie they identified that installation over ICF voids the Hardie warranty, although they have specs for installation on ICF. I don't exactly use Hardie for the warranty though...

They work OK for Hardie? That's a deck screw with smaller head than screws specified for FC and doesn't have the nibs under the head to help countersink them.

Honestly I just picked that one out of the book.  I use a bulk stainless steel screw that I order from Fastenal when I install Hardie, yes it takes two hands.  I use a Malco Gauge set to hold the lap siding while I screw it in.  However my Senco driver that takes collated screws is also pretty much a two hand operation anyway.

I find that the nibs under the head are not necessary to set the screw head level with the level of the siding.

That brings up the question, just how worthwhile are the nibs under the head of FC screws, particulary for installing FC siding? The general consensus on tile forums seems to be that for installing FC tile backer board the choice is nibs or predrill and countersink. I was just extending that advice to siding in my own mind. With tile you can't have heads sticking up above the backer board hardly at all. I assume that's not a real problem w/ siding, especially considering some of the siding vertical spacers leave a shim behind the plank and deliberately create a gap.

One question is what size of siding?

Lap siding over seven inches should be face nailed. Then you have aesthetic qualities to how you fasten the siding.
Blind nailing will give you a range of options as listed above.

I know of one gentleman who blind nailed the 7plus inch lap siding and and used enerfoam/foam2foam adhesive horizontally as well at the lower overlap, effectually binding the pieces of lap siding into a monolithic system. After years, it has held up great.
Others caulk each entire bottom lap of the siding to eliminate the black line. This looks awesome, but some of the cement sidings say this voids warranty.

On another note, building wrap behind the siding can be a head scratcher, it seems to be consensus that in high moisture areas its recommended.

Kevin

Actually there is no simple yes/no answer to which width of plank can be blind nailed or must be face nailed. The most definitive info I find is this report, http://www.jameshardie.com/builder/pdf/ner-405.pdf, which is the ICC Evaluation Service, Inc. report on Hardie siding products. It's proabably as close to "gospel" as anything we'll ever find on fastening Hardie siding products.

In short, whether you can blind nail or not depends on the fastener used, the material being fastened to, the fastener spacing, and the local wind speed and exposure rating for the location of the building. The fastener type and size is the overriding factor. For example, large diameter bugle head screws in steel studs through the plank overlap, not surprisingly, offer the highest wind rating of all. But here is an interesting contrast. 1 1/4" galvanized roofing nails through the top edge of the plank offer substantially greater wind rating than do 2" galvanized siding nails through the overlap for a given plank width and nail spacing. For my area it's 110 mph vs. 70 mph for 9.5" wide plank nailed @ 16" spacing.

My proposed nailing scheme isn't on the chart at all. I'm planning on using 9 1/4" plank with 8" exposure. I'm thinking of blind nailing using 2" ring shank HDG siding nails spaced @ 12", or maybe 6", driven into the reinforced section of the BuildBlock web. Those reinforcements are spaced 6" horizontally and 8" vertically. RS nails hold tightly in that portion of the web.

Sealing or gluing the planks at the over lap doesn't sound like a good idea at all. That creates a pretty vapor tight membrane that hampers any moisture behind from drying out to the exterior. I wonder if your friend didn't just buy himself future paint peeling problems.