brian james
New Member
Posts:1
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| 13 Mar 2008 07:05 PM |
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We are looking at building a cabin in the u.p. of Mich and were considering ICF but have been getting prices all over the board. First of all we can't find many contractors with above grade experience and the one we found that had built numerous homes was much more expensive. My lowest quote was just over 9.00 per sq ft with no charge for windows or corners and a high quote of 12.50 with charges for windows and corners. I am curious if the experts can help me with what I should expect to pay with out giving up their secrets. I would guess that material prices would have to be similiar. should there be that big of discrepancies between bids? Any help is appreciated. Thanks |
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James Eggert
Basic Member
Posts:411
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| 13 Mar 2008 09:09 PM |
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I was at $10 a ft 4 years ago....
You need to take what ever numbers you get and compare them to your other choices, such as frame and batts.
But, you really really need to get into the numbers and the resultant comparisons by actually comparing each system from the same start point, such as the footing, all the way to the erected frame shell, with outside housewrap, and insulation and possibly even an interior VB, depending on your requirements.
But, you're still not done...you then need to determine costs per year based on as much info as possible you can apply, such as heating costs, equipment costs, term payback, etc...
It's just not as easy as $12 a sq. ft.
By the way, I have a mfg in WI if interested, but I have no idea of that areas labor rates. |
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| Take Care<br>Jim<br><br>Design/Build/Consulting<br>"Not So Big" Design Proponent |
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CFL-ICF
New Member
Posts:63
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| 14 Mar 2008 09:02 AM |
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$9-13 is the going rate down here in florida. turn key install.
get referals. then check them out. the highest isnt allways the best and neither is the lowest.
why they would even break it down and show extra costs for corners and windows?
i only give turnkey installed qoutes. |
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icf4life
New Member
Posts:20
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| 15 Mar 2008 08:03 PM |
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We are in Western Wis. We use a quality form and do quality work. Its been about 5 years since we have been below 11.00 per ft.Usually between 11.75 and 12.75. I know I don't have 3.00 per ft in profit so anything under 10.00 seems unrealistic for a liscensed, insured contractor. |
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Ptmckiou
New Member
Posts:4
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| 16 Mar 2008 06:41 PM |
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We are looking at all ICF walls out here in the sierra foothills of California. I was just quoted $16/sq ft and I couldn't believe it. That was $8/sf just in labor. |
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Chris Johnson
Advanced Member
Posts:878
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| 16 Mar 2008 11:18 PM |
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Hey, Hey...take it easy on the California bashing, don't blame the installer for the price, he is paying the highest workers comp and liability rates in the nation as well as living in the most expensive state requires higher costs of doing business. His $ 8.00 in labor reduces down to $ 4.00 +/- after all the overhead expenses, payroll deduction matches, insurances, medicare, etc, etc.
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| Chris Johnson - Pro ICF<br>North of 49 |
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eco-hammer
New Member
Posts:37
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| 17 Mar 2008 12:35 AM |
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In CA it's not only workers comp that kills you. In seismic zones we're putting #5 bar at 6" O.C. for below grade retaining walls. Cost of steel is thru the roof. I just paid $142 per yard for concrete and $750 for a line pump. |
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medelpad1
New Member
Posts:1
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| 17 Mar 2008 09:33 PM |
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We are a ICF builder based here in MI and would like to quote your project. We have done numerous above- grade projects and have the references to prove our work. As far as price goes, until the costs for steel and concrete are established by the suppliers this spring, any price given could be very inaccurate. |
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walltech
Basic Member
Posts:390
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| 17 Mar 2008 10:33 PM |
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Brian, we are a dist. in Mi and can point you to a local installer if your interested.
Dave |
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olegy
New Member
Posts:22
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| 18 Mar 2008 06:37 PM |
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Are these prices are for ICF walls only, or shell prices ( including footing and slab)?
If it is just wall prices, then what is wrong with that reference?
http://www.standardicf.net/estimating.php - $6-$7/sq.ft.
Thanks.
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Ptmckiou
New Member
Posts:4
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| 18 Mar 2008 06:53 PM |
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My reference of $16 was JUST for the wall itself - no slab, footings etc. Since my post I've confirmed by other locals that it seems to vary from $14 to $18 per sq ft of wall space here in California...on top of that you have the slab and the footings to add in. |
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Paul Stevens
Basic Member
Posts:200
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| 18 Mar 2008 10:12 PM |
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ICF mix, Barrie Ontario $127 per metre |
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Marc&Kem
New Member
Posts:50
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| 19 Mar 2008 12:28 AM |
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Brian,
It gets more and more obvious this board it made up of contractors and salesmen. Good for basic info but bad for realistic comparison. The comparison is the difference in the material & labor. The comparison should not have to do with the benefits such as energy saving or strength. Why does it appear that ICF's are so much more complicated and require more skill than other trades such as masons or carpenters? It certainly does not require as much labor. So they can charge more? The Workmans comp, taxes, etc. are required with all the trades. Geographic location Ok....
Then... what is so complicated about ICF's so we can know. After all we (the novice) is the reason this forum can exist, and without the customer, most of the members would not be wasting their time.
I'm all for making money and saving money. But if it was more cost effective, it would be the standard. The comparison should not have to do with the benefits such as energy saving or strength. Just material and labor. |
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Chris Johnson
Advanced Member
Posts:878
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| 19 Mar 2008 01:15 AM |
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Marc&Kem
Realize it is the contractors and salesmen that have the correct answers you are looking for.
Yes, everyone must have WC, CA is the highest rates in the nation, as well as record high liability premiums, we all live in a very litigeous society and with CA having the highest population we pay a premium for that which gets passed on through the work we do. Search the board and you will realize why prices are all over the place, forms are pretty standard across the country +/- $ .50 per ft., concrete is all over the map, rebar fluctuates like crazy, fuel keeps increasing.
The novice can do it and come here and ask questions, but other novices do not have the answers, it is us the contractors that help.
ICF's are not for the flippers, they are for people who are concerned about global warming and the enviorment, they are for people who wish to make good investments, they are for people who care.
It doesn't require as much labor...compared to what? We still have to form walls, place bar, pour concrete, clean up, take our equipment away, maintain that equipment. Most ICF contractors own bracing, a small 20-50k investment that only works on ICF's. A hammer as an example is a multitrade tool which can be had for $ 50.
If a carpenter has a crooked wall, he straightens it, you don't have that luxury with ICF, the damn thing needs to be straight when it's poured or your toast (This could explain the difference between $ 14 and $ 18 per sq.ft. as well).
What do you do for a living? I betcha I can do it as well, maybe not as good, but I could do it and save myself some money, if I had questions would you help me?
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| Chris Johnson - Pro ICF<br>North of 49 |
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Marc&Kem
New Member
Posts:50
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| 19 Mar 2008 03:45 AM |
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I totally agree that the green guys are going for ICF's. I'm just using ICF's for basement with SIP's on top.
Is this what you are saying? The costs are too high for the regular guy because the labor and material for just the walls are higher also because of risk and associated tools like bracing and hammers. The cost for the foundation and pad should be the same right?? and labor is higher (higher skill level)?
The problem is they just make it look easy on those company website videos. Kinda like those DIY shows on Tv.
Please except my apology for offending anyone in my post. Sometimes I like to get to the point and I get in a hurry and get caught up in it. I was thinking about the individual Subs and their skilled workers. I wasn't thinking about it from a contractors view.
I have found some great information on this forum as well as loads of contacts. When it comes to costs, it seems it is really hard to define the scope and get a good answer no matter what the subject.
I'm not sure if you really wanted to know what I do... I am a Industrial Maintenance Supervisor over 4 departments for a Japanese company called Denso. Before this, I did Industrial Project management. Largest building was $5+ mil..
I would help anyone, that's why my wife and I operate a ministry with our own resources.
I am particular about giving advice. I would provide a resource before I gave information I was not absolutley certain it was accurate. There my bio. I'll keep low because I always seem to come across wrong in messages. Especially if someone does not know me.
You've got 176 great posts. I get my best info from reading the discussions between you proffessionals.
Thanks for your contributions and Takecare,
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andreme
New Member
Posts:1
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| 25 Mar 2008 12:08 PM |
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what's the cost for ICF for a 10,000 sq foot home for the foundation in icf and walls in icf and floors in Hambro?
Quebec , Canada
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renangle
Basic Member
Posts:304
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| 25 Mar 2008 12:38 PM |
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Andreme,
Your question is pretty difficult to answer, in my opinion. Someone could shoot from the hip on price, but it would be inaccurate by at least a few dollars (either way). To give you a legitimate idea of sq. ft. price, you would need to provide the number of corners, if there are numerous windows, if below grade, do you move from an 8" block to a 6" block...? Also with flooring, if you are going with an insulated flooring, you are going to get pretty expensive quickly. If it were my house, I would go with traditional flooring and pay for the the benefit of the ICF walls instead (but that is just me). Also, another important question is with the demensions of the house and how they are listed...are you going to the 1" or 1/4", that is a big labor factor most of the time.
Thanks,
renangle |
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Cattail Bill
Basic Member
Posts:206
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| 25 Mar 2008 08:04 PM |
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In our area we compete cost wise with stick frame or concrete block and poured with in $200 to $300 dollars per project, mind you that is comparing wall surface to wall surface any thing that would be done to a traditional wall surface to bring it to the same level as an ICF wall. |
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