Hey guys, first timer on this forum here.

Let me just start by saying that this post is VERY general, which means that i do NOT have any sort of hard numbers/money value/calculations etc, it is only meant to ''feel your pulse'' and see what you guys would do in my place.
Ok, I am an engineer who works for a Concrete company in Atlantic Canada, so you are guessing why ICF construction is very appealing to me, I am by no means rich, so budget will be a big factor in my next construction. I am also an avid DIY'er who loves to try an new things. So let me break down my ''very volatile'' new build, i don't even have a land purchased yet!!

- Full ICF, stick roof, ICF floors with radiant heat
- Around 2000-2500sf per floors, 2 floors plus basement plus attached garage
- Planning on doing a lot of it myself BUT not before taking the required courses and training, one of my client is an ICF contractor and he would be working with me all along (please don't flame me for wanting to do some of the work myself, if you are don't   agree with my decision, don't post anything!
- Would NOT do the floors myself, and would maybe only do the basement walls and leave the rest of it to the contractor.
- Geothermal, i would loop and dig myself and leave the rest to the contractor ( i know that there is a separate section for Geothermal so i do not expect anything specific), again all the calculations would be done properly i don't plan on ''winging it''.

That is about all i have for now, remember that concrete is cheap for me, so please chime in as to how YOU would go about the build. What type of heating would you use? Are ICF floors a good idea? Again i don't have any specific, no house plans, no land nothing. This is more of a ''if you had to do it all over again what would you do'' type of post.

Thank you!

My floors are 1450 ft2 (my floors are concrete too). I used 200 cubic meter of concrete. It did cost me around 30.000 cad. It is %20 percent of my budget for the shell. If you get the concrete free you will save around 20% percent. Still you have to buy windows , doors kitchen ...

Would you do it again? Do you think that it was worth it? Of course I am aware of everything else that goes into the build (doors, kitchen etc)...

Posted By aragorn764 on 17 Dec 2012 09:54 AM
Hey guys, first timer on this forum here.

Let me just start by saying that this post is VERY general, which means that i do NOT have any sort of hard numbers/money value/calculations etc, it is only meant to ''feel your pulse'' and see what you guys would do in my place.
Ok, I am an engineer who works for a Concrete company in Atlantic Canada, so you are guessing why ICF construction is very appealing to me, I am by no means rich, so budget will be a big factor in my next construction. I am also an avid DIY'er who loves to try an new things. So let me break down my ''very volatile'' new build, i don't even have a land purchased yet!!

Financing will be a huge consideration. You're in Canada, correct? Financing may be somewhat different there, but here in the states a DIY'er is pretty much dead in the water from the get-go if you have to borrow most of the money to build. Banks are not friendly to DIYers. Unless you can self finance as you build you may have no choice but to use a contractor and be tied to a timeline of 6 months to a year.

So, my recommendation is you get your financing figured out quite well before you get plans locked in solid. In the US tight budget, DIY, and borrowing, do not mix very well at all.

Also, based on my experience of building one house, your labor $$ savings in doing it DIY may not be as grand as you envision at the start. I know mine wasn't. Not sure why other than I spent more time with my one hired helper doing a better job than what a profit driven contractor would have probably done. Net result, no great money savings but a somewhat higher quality house. Problem is, quality doesn't add much to market value, sadly.

Posted By aragorn764 on 17 Dec 2012 01:22 PM
Would you do it again? Do you think that it was worth it? Of course I am aware of everything else that goes into the build (doors, kitchen etc)...

I would definitely do it again. No question. I am proud of what I did.

Heck yeah I would do it again. We used TF systems and it was pretty easy to get the hang of it. I have no professional construction background. Just find a local company with good support and you can do it yourself.

http://icftfsystemshome.blogspot.com/

I am of the school that one should leave the highly technical items like ICF stacking, bracing, pouring, etc. to the pros and leave the DIY stuff for things like interior finishing (drywall, paint, tile, etc). There are some things that experience and dozens of jobs/pours cannot replace. With ICF if you screw up, it's not like wood frame where you can go back and re-frame it.

Also as mentioned on here by others, banks will not let you DIY and loan you money. Not going to happen. Way to risky for the bank. You will need at least 30% cash down payment before the bank will even consider a custom home & you will have to have a licensed GC. Your credit must be excellent and one must have the same job for at least 2 years. On a $250k home project, that means $75k cash on hand.

The market/economy is still in bad shape. Banks don't want to lend on an already built home, let alone a custom home. Most custom homes are 100% cash jobs right now.

I'm in the middle of a DIY ICF build. If you have a good ICF guy to advise you, it's not that hard. The stacking, cutting, re-bar, and bracing is easy if you know what to do. I felt the actual pouring was more critical, and paid my ICF guy and his crew to do the pour. I spent a lot of time planning and designing; far more than a contractor would. I drew each block of each wall on my computer so that I could plan all my cuts for openings, and try to place them in the best places. In some systems, you can stack in ways where the embedded fastening strips don't line up, and that would give you fits trying to hang drywall, etc. I used Fox, and although their instructions are pretty comprehensive, I learned a lot of good tips from my contractor. Although my walls (both basement and main floor) took a long time compared to a contractor, they are very straight, level, and plumb, and no mistakes were made that resulted in material loss.

Thanks for all the input guys!
But you have to remember that Concrete producing and everything else concrete is what i do on a day to day basis! So I am exposed to a lot of construction methods and experienced people, but I feel that the to DIY or not is not really what i am looking for in this thread so lets say that I would NOT be doing any of the work myself, all contracted. So in this case, what would YOU do? Lets go with a 250k$ home project, assuming i got financing and all, what type of configuration would you go with considering healthy rebates on concrete? What about heating?

I am in the middle of my first and only ICF DIY, pouring the 2nd level tomorrow morning infact. I was able to get full financing from the bank. Infact, I did not even put a penny down. However my home value to amount I am borrowing is far over 20% rather closer to 40% market value to the bank feels pretty secure on the funding. I also had to show proof of ability, which was easy given my profession and construction background. So I am DIY ICF and 100% financed...guess I am an exception. Do not know about Canada, but most local banks and credit unions are far more willing to work with you verse a big bank.

But back to your question at hand...use the concrete opportunity to design a home and let mother nature help heat it. Exposed concrete floors and mass is a great way to introduce tempered and passive solar heating with the correct design, windows, placement, etc. I would personally skip the infloor heat. While its comfortable and great, its expensive to install and depending on how you heat it, can be expensive to run. With a tight budget, you would be better investing it elsewhere I would think. In the states we have tax rebates making geo costs a lot lower. Do not think those are in Canada are they? May want to check on install costs of geo vs typcail forced air systems for your area, any rebates you do get, and energy costs/pay off. With an ICF home, it may not be a wise investment in geo either. However a lot of the cost is in the wells, so it sounds like you can lower that cost quite a bit, so it may pencil out nicely for you too. Geo was too on the plate for the current home but even with the rebates, the small energy load of the home still made it a long payoff for what local gas prices are. (and the gas company gives a higher rebates on Energy Star 3.0 homes then any give on geo rebates!)

Posted By lzerarc on 18 Dec 2012 02:27 PM
I am in the middle of my first and only ICF DIY, pouring the 2nd level tomorrow morning infact. I was able to get full financing from the bank. Infact, I did not even put a penny down. However my home value to amount I am borrowing is far over 20% rather closer to 40% market value to the bank feels pretty secure on the funding. I also had to show proof of ability, which was easy given my profession and construction background. So I am DIY ICF and 100% financed...guess I am an exception.

I guess you and I both are the exception. My ICF project is going on 18 months and I'm still not done! The bank didn't require a downpayment or anything like that. They had an appraiser put a value to my plans, and they said that they'd loan up to 80% of that appraisal. Since I'm doing 95% of the work myself, I am hopefully able to build it without dipping into any savings. I got about 8 grand left to spend . . . it's going to be close. I put in geothermal and so far it's working great. It's a 4 ton WF envision with 2 stage compressor operating three zones heating/cooling about 4000+ square feet. I've never witnessed the system running in the second stage, even when we had a month of 100+ temps. Running the geo, with a dehumidifier and an ERV hasn't added more than 30 bucks a month to my energy bills (compared to the bills before I ran the hvac). One thing that I couldn't believe when I heard it but I now think that there's truth to it -- a friend, who is a builder, said that once the house is roughed in with drywall, you've likely already spent half the money and half the time to complete the build.

Posted By jeepster on 18 Dec 2012 10:57 PM

Posted By lzerarc on 18 Dec 2012 02:27 PM
I am in the middle of my first and only ICF DIY, pouring the 2nd level tomorrow morning infact. I was able to get full financing from the bank. Infact, I did not even put a penny down. However my home value to amount I am borrowing is far over 20% rather closer to 40% market value to the bank feels pretty secure on the funding. I also had to show proof of ability, which was easy given my profession and construction background. So I am DIY ICF and 100% financed...guess I am an exception.

I guess you and I both are the exception. My ICF project is going on 18 months and I'm still not done! The bank didn't require a downpayment or anything like that. They had an appraiser put a value to my plans, and they said that they'd loan up to 80% of that appraisal. Since I'm doing 95% of the work myself, I am hopefully able to build it without dipping into any savings. I got about 8 grand left to spend . . . it's going to be close. I put in geothermal and so far it's working great. It's a 4 ton WF envision with 2 stage compressor operating three zones heating/cooling about 4000+ square feet. I've never witnessed the system running in the second stage, even when we had a month of 100+ temps. Running the geo, with a dehumidifier and an ERV hasn't added more than 30 bucks a month to my energy bills (compared to the bills before I ran the hvac). One thing that I couldn't believe when I heard it but I now think that there's truth to it -- a friend, who is a builder, said that once the house is roughed in with drywall, you've likely already spent half the money and half the time to complete the build.

Wow that is good news guys, it gives me hope!!

Any other suggestions are welcome!

I am in the middle of my own DIY ICF home. It will be a lot like you envision: basement and first floor ICF, stick roof, wood subfloor with concrete topping for radiant heat, geothermal. I have done all the planning, and block cutting and stacking myself (with Nudura) and it is easy and fun. I did hire a local ICF contractor to run the pour for me and everything went beautifully. We plan to pour the upper walls in about a week or so and I'll probably pay a local carpenter to set the trusses and sheath the roof, just to get it out of the weather faster. We built our last (conventionally built) house 15 years ago, but that is all the building experience I have. It takes a lot of time, but it is very rewarding. For our 3000 sq. ft. project, we are on track to spend about $200K (excluding land). With your concrete experience and connections, you should definitely consider DIY, if you have the time.

Wow that is great Elvis! do you have pictures of the build?

I have been blogging along the way of our build.

http://icftfsystemshome.blogspot.com/

I have posted lots of pics there.

I doubt you could do basement and 2 floors 2500 sq. ft. per floor plus garage with icf floors and walls. Could probably do it without ICF floors if you do alot yourself....
Radiant floor heat with gas/propane boiler is best if you want to run off grid. Or there are some good outdoor wood boilers if you are rural and can do basement radiant and run the rest of the house forced air off of them as well. Make sure you pay attention to your ability to control humidity.

Have fun look at lots of ICF construction pictures, you'll do fine if you plan ahead!

Posted By onesojourner on 21 Dec 2012 08:40 AM
http://icftfsystemshome.blogspot.com/

samix likes this blog.

PM me if you like Im in Nova Scotia and did what your planning ,