GunnyGreenBuilder
New Member
Posts:6
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04 Dec 2016 02:10 PM |
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My girlfriend and I are the happy new owners of 3.5 acres of colorado mountains at 11,000ft! This is a huge dream of ours. We want to build a small all season cabin. ~500 sqft. I will be building on mostly stilts. (sloped land) this is because our area gets HUGE amounts of snow. Avg of 600" per year and up to 1000" a year have been seen.... that up to 83' of SNOW!!! granted that not snow pack depth but cumulative snowfall. We dont want to be digging a 10' hole just to get into the cabin. We also see regular winter temps of -30 to -40F (Psss -40c is the same :)
Sips are the only thing i think that will work for where we are as getting building materials to the home is not impossible but having a concrete truck and pumping system up there for ICF is not feasible. Being that the home will be elevated I want to do a SIP floor. 12" Panel. I'm unsure how to accomplish this. Will the engineer nick this? or is it worth going after?
The roof will be corrugated metal on a minimum pitch of 12/12.
The home will be 100% off grid. I will use propane to maintain a minimum of 45-50 deg F and wood fireplace to heat it in the winter when we are at the cabin. IF we are away for extended periods of time I will winterize the building as not to waste energy.
The power system in the summer will be hydro from a near by stream and spring. in the winter though the trees are too dense to do any type of solar. The only place i could put panels would be destroyed in an avalanche I will have a diesel fired DC generator along with a small pull start gas engine for emergency backup. We spend a lot of time playing in the local area so we will frequent the cabin often even in the winter.
I'd post photos but I can't figure out how to inject the code |
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cmkavala
Veteran Member
Posts:4327
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04 Dec 2016 03:03 PM |
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Posted By GunnyGreenBuilder on 04 Dec 2016 02:10 PM
My girlfriend and I are the happy new owners of 3.5 acres of colorado mountains at 11,000ft! This is a huge dream of ours. We want to build a small all season cabin. ~500 sqft. I will be building on mostly stilts. (sloped land) this is because our area gets HUGE amounts of snow. Avg of 600" per year and up to 1000" a year have been seen.... that up to 83' of SNOW!!! granted that not snow pack depth but cumulative snowfall. We dont want to be digging a 10' hole just to get into the cabin. We also see regular winter temps of -30 to -40F (Psss -40c is the same :)
Sips are the only thing i think that will work for where we are as getting building materials to the home is not impossible but having a concrete truck and pumping system up there for ICF is not feasible. Being that the home will be elevated I want to do a SIP floor. 12" Panel. I'm unsure how to accomplish this. Will the engineer nick this? or is it worth going after?
The roof will be corrugated metal on a minimum pitch of 12/12.
The home will be 100% off grid. I will use propane to maintain a minimum of 45-50 deg F and wood fireplace to heat it in the winter when we are at the cabin. IF we are away for extended periods of time I will winterize the building as not to waste energy.
The power system in the summer will be hydro from a near by stream and spring. in the winter though the trees are too dense to do any type of solar. The only place i could put panels would be destroyed in an avalanche I will have a diesel fired DC generator along with a small pull start gas engine for emergency backup. We spend a lot of time playing in the local area so we will frequent the cabin often even in the winter.
I'd post photos but I can't figure out how to inject the code
GunnyGreenBuilder; SIPS make perfect sense for your cabin, they are lightweight and transportable to mountainous areas. SIP floors are a good choice as well to complete a very tight thermal / structural envelope |
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Chris Kavala<br>[email protected]<br>1-877-321-SIPS<br /> |
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GunnyGreenBuilder
New Member
Posts:6
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04 Dec 2016 07:44 PM |
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Any ideas on how to seal the bottom exposed part of the floor to prevent rotting? I'm hoping to build a beam grid 4' OC in one direction and 8' OC in the other and let the panels take all the span? Maybe a paint on coating? |
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cmkavala
Veteran Member
Posts:4327
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04 Dec 2016 10:12 PM |
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Posted By GunnyGreenBuilder on 04 Dec 2016 07:44 PM
Any ideas on how to seal the bottom exposed part of the floor to prevent rotting? I'm hoping to build a beam grid 4' OC in one direction and 8' OC in the other and let the panels take all the span? Maybe a paint on coating?
several options: 1. the code requires that non-treated floor members must be at least 18" from ground, but I would probably still. a.) coat or b.) clad underside with metal or FRP 2. another alternative would be to use a non-wood SIP. ......depending on panel manufacturer you should be able to clear span floor 16 feet with a 12" thick SIP |
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Chris Kavala<br>[email protected]<br>1-877-321-SIPS<br /> |
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GunnyGreenBuilder
New Member
Posts:6
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05 Dec 2016 11:41 AM |
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Yeah, I just talked to my MFG and he said he could span, the building is 25' sq so i may end up shrinking it down a bit. other white he said the panels would come at 12.5' panles and I'd just have to build a microlam grid. but nothing like a 4' OC system... good news! Never built with sips before. |
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cmkavala
Veteran Member
Posts:4327
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05 Dec 2016 12:53 PM |
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25ft is over spanned for a floor you would want at least 45 lbs per square foot load, preferably 55 @ L/360. not seeing the mfg. span charts, my guess is the 12" at 25 ft. span is only good for about 30# sq. ft |
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Chris Kavala<br>[email protected]<br>1-877-321-SIPS<br /> |
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Jelly
Veteran Member
Posts:1017
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05 Dec 2016 09:24 PM |
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So gunnygreenbuilder do you mean a double span? Twelve and a half feet to an intermediate beam and then twelve and a half feet to get the rest of the way? |
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GunnyGreenBuilder
New Member
Posts:6
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06 Dec 2016 11:47 AM |
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Posted By Jelly on 05 Dec 2016 09:24 PM
So gunnygreenbuilder do you mean a double span? Twelve and a half feet to an intermediate beam and then twelve and a half feet to get the rest of the way?
Yes, the mfg said that in large spans they build lumber into the sip. is does increase the therm bridging but some times its a trade off. Ill be going 12.5' span max. I just thought it was cool that they could span that far! |
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MG1911
New Member
Posts:11
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01 Sep 2018 03:58 PM |
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Posted By cmkavala on 04 Dec 2016 10:12 PM
Posted By GunnyGreenBuilder on 04 Dec 2016 07:44 PM
Any ideas on how to seal the bottom exposed part of the floor to prevent rotting? I'm hoping to build a beam grid 4' OC in one direction and 8' OC in the other and let the panels take all the span? Maybe a paint on coating?
several options: 1. the code requires that non-treated floor members must be at least 18" from ground, but I would probably still. a.) coat or b.) clad underside with metal or FRP 2. another alternative would be to use a non-wood SIP. ......depending on panel manufacturer you should be able to clear span floor 16 feet with a 12" thick SIP
Hi Chris,
What would be a good choice for paint/coating? I am facing a similar question. I am building a SIP floor on beams on helical piers. I want to protect the underside of the SIPs.
Thank you,
MG
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cmkavala
Veteran Member
Posts:4327
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01 Sep 2018 04:05 PM |
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MG1911, If you are using metal SIPs they are already painted and moisture proof ............. if using OSB, I'm not sure of any surefire method to prevent moisture from migrating thru a coating |
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Chris Kavala<br>[email protected]<br>1-877-321-SIPS<br /> |
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MG1911
New Member
Posts:11
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06 Sep 2018 08:59 AM |
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Hi Chris, I think I would go with Sto Emerald Coat if I use OSB-skinned SIPs. It is vapor-permeable, durable, and waterproof and is used in similar applications. I asked Sto about this, and they said they would recommend Emerald Coat. However, I am also considering steel SIPs. I assume an 8"-thick permatherm steel SIP panel can span 10 feet and can be used in my application as the floor over beams and helical piles. Can they cut the panels to the required shape at the factory? This is a 30' circle, so many of the panels would have a radiused side to make the circle. How do the prices of steel SIPs compare to OSB-skinned SIPs? MG |
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cmkavala
Veteran Member
Posts:4327
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06 Sep 2018 10:33 AM |
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Posted By MG1911 on 06 Sep 2018 08:59 AM
Hi Chris, I think I would go with Sto Emerald Coat if I use OSB-skinned SIPs. It is vapor-permeable, durable, and waterproof and is used in similar applications. I asked Sto about this, and they said they would recommend Emerald Coat. However, I am also considering steel SIPs. I assume an 8"-thick permatherm steel SIP panel can span 10 feet and can be used in my application as the floor over beams and helical piles. Can they cut the panels to the required shape at the factory? This is a 30' circle, so many of the panels would have a radiused side to make the circle. How do the prices of steel SIPs compare to OSB-skinned SIPs? MG
MG1911, actually a 6" would span 10' , yes your helical piers need cross members for the SIPs to attach to we do not cut radius's in the factory they would need to be field cut, we don't price shop against OSB, but I've been told that the price point is about the same (and our already has the vapor barrier included Photo shows 6" SIP panels and helical piers |
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Chris Kavala<br>[email protected]<br>1-877-321-SIPS<br /> |
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MG1911
New Member
Posts:11
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08 Sep 2018 10:01 PM |
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Hi Chris, Thanks for the info. How are the floor panels connected to the wall panels with metal-skinned SIPS? Thanks, MG |
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cmkavala
Veteran Member
Posts:4327
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08 Sep 2018 10:29 PM |
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Posted By MG1911 on 08 Sep 2018 10:01 PM
Hi Chris, Thanks for the info. How are the floor panels connected to the wall panels with metal-skinned SIPS? Thanks, MG
MG1911, a 10 ga channel with 3" top leg on floor panel edge give a stout edge for load bearing and since it wraps around to the bottom takes care of uplift then 18 ga base track is attached to the perimeter floor channel with #14 self drill hex head screws an 1-1/2" dia. fender washers |
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Chris Kavala<br>[email protected]<br>1-877-321-SIPS<br /> |
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