Posted By ICFHybrid on 26 Jan 2011 11:48 AM

When the temperatures drop below 30 degrees, I shut off my inefficient ASHP and use a space heater in the master bed room, my bills are anywhere from $350 to $480 (2200 Kwh to 3100 Kwh) depending on how cold it is.

OK, and this works because you are heating a much smaller space (only the MBR) with simple resistance heat as opposed to the entire upstairs with the 3 ton ASHP, right?

Do you have a way to separate the two "zones" (like a door on the stairs) or how do you keep the downstairs heat pump from heating the upper floor? I live in a fairly mild climate, but when it drops below 30F, I find that even poorly insulated and leaky homes need nearly no heat on the second floor.

The ASHP has no resistance heat period. It was obviously not installed correctly, ASPH are usually installed with AUX heat so when the temperature drops below a certain temperature the outside compressor shuts off and the blower uses resistant AUX heat. This thing never shuts down, unless the thermostat is turned down or off.  I plan to continue to use it until it dies then replace it with another open loop Geothermal unit. It going to cost roughly 15k to replace it, that's $14,999 more than I have at the moment.   

There is no "door" from the upstairs to the downstairs, it's roughly a 4 degree difference between two bedrooms at the top of the stairs and the downstairs. The Master bedroom is upstairs and around the corner in the hall way, it gets minimal heat from the downstairs, thus I need a Space heater to keep it warm at night. I tried turned the downstairs geothermal system up to 72 degrees at night, but it really doesn't keep the master bedroom warm. I'd say there's about 6 to 8 degree difference between them.    

I tried turned the downstairs geothermal system up to 72 degrees at night, but it really doesn't keep the master bedroom warm. I'd say there's about 6 to 8 degree difference between them.

What about just running a duct off the downstairs system to the MBR? Seems like you might be okay if you could just get heat to there a bit better. If the system downstairs is maxed out, you could put in a damper or even just close registers in other areas to direct more to your MBR at night.

And, I don't know where you live, but have you considered one of the new split mini ductless heat pumps for your upstairs situation? 3 ton unit = $7,500 and gets you heating and air conditioning right where you want it.

" It going to cost roughly 15k to replace it, that's $14,999 more than I have at the moment. "
TG I see you have more disposable income than I....
j

Posted By ICFHybrid on 26 Jan 2011 10:38 PM

I tried turned the downstairs geothermal system up to 72 degrees at night, but it really doesn't keep the master bedroom warm. I'd say there's about 6 to 8 degree difference between them.

What about just running a duct off the downstairs system to the MBR? Seems like you might be okay if you could just get heat to there a bit better. If the system downstairs is maxed out, you could put in a damper or even just close registers in other areas to direct more to your MBR at night.

And, I don't know where you live, but have you considered one of the new split mini ductless heat pumps for your upstairs situation? 3 ton unit = $7,500 and gets you heating and air conditioning right where you want it.

Believe me I thought about just running a single duct to the master bedroom, but the house configuration doesn't make this easy. The interior walls just don't line up with the ones below.

The existing ASHP is a Split Goodman system, the 15k guesstimate is a general quote from the State approved installer that replaced the downstairs unit in Oct. 2008. The Existing ASHP is at the top of the stairs on the 3rd floor, which is basically a finished attic. The restricted space it's in does not have adequate space for the air ducts, so it makes a sharp 90 turn right coming out of the unit, It really needs to be moved to the unfinished part of the 3rd floor to get proper duct clearances. Also it's mounted in a way there is no access to the evaporator coil, I have no idea how dirty it is and I have no way to get in there to clean it.

$7,500 sounds pretty good to me, I hope I can get away that cheaply when it needs to be replaced. I toyed with the idea to get a another Goodman R-22 outside compressor for 1k and keeping it until the unit I have fails, but in reality I want to get away from ASHP and go all Geo. the ducts for the 2nd floor are in the ceiling and they should be sufficient for a Geo replacement system.
 
 
        

Posted By ICFHybrid on 26 Jan 2011 10:38 PM

And, I don't know where you live, but have you considered one of the new split mini ductless heat pumps for your upstairs situation? 3 ton unit = $7,500 and gets you heating and air conditioning right where you want it.

I hope you will take this in the spirit it is given.....
 $7,500!!!?? Why I could buy a system on line from Tonkyo for only $2,500 and have Bob's HVAC install it for $50/hr. Since it should only take a day to install, what are you wasting the other $4,600 on???!!!

You'll wanna be careful about just tossing numbers around ICF, there are people that'll nit pik the heck outta ya.
j

Posted By joe.ami on 28 Jan 2011 12:34 PM
...and have Bob's HVAC install it for $50/hr.

LOL, that's cruel.

Honestly not trying to be cruel. It's simply a fact that the more you post the more you will be prone to generalizations and subject to disection.
If we can agree that some times things are intended to offer ball park guestimates, then my comment will be recieved in the spirit it was offered.
j

Why I could buy a system on line from Tonkyo for only $2,500...

Seriously? The Daikin 4MXS unit? My best source on that was $2,800. Thanks!

have Bob's HVAC install it for $50/hr

I don't think I could get the same wholesale rate for the minimal hours needed to install a mini split. They are mighty simple, however. A feasible plan might be to drill the holes, set the mounting brackets on the outdoor and indoor units, run the electrical and then let the installer run tube and put it in service.

3 ton outdoor unit: $2,800
Indoor Unit: $490 (X3) = $1,470.
Misc: $350
Labor: 8hrs @$90/hr = $720

TOTAL: $5,340

Oh you didn't specify Daiken in your estimate..... You mean different products have different prices?

You mean different products have different prices?

Nearly everything has different prices. The real question is....what is the value?

Stan,

I am working on a similar dilemma as you. I've had the heat pump installers out, a qualified hvac tech in the family (he's just getting his feet wet in the geo world), and an very motivated gentleman energy audior... Bills exceeding $650 in the winter and avg $150 in the summer. I live on the border btw ND and MN. Temps routinely get down to -30 or colder if you incl wind.
I am still trying to get intelligent with this geo system. Moved in before last winter, 10yr old home...and neighbors say geo never worked right here...
Energy audit went well as far as insulation and overall building. When our aux heat turns on, it kicks off the geo and won't shut itself off all night long. In the morning, I have to reset the geo (wth CB) to get it back running. Since the audit, I shut off aux at the CB and the geo has been keeping the house at demanded temps without problem (BUT we are in a heat wave in this part...it's actually above freezing today). I am in the process of trying to figure out a couple variables you have not yet mentioned.

1- floor heat (my heat pump also heats up my basement floor heat as well as a slab under a 1st level bonus room. The slab may not be insulated well and the floor heat could be causing an inc in energy consumption...

2. the amount of water flow. In my case, we just flushed out a methanol solution and replaced it with a heavy concentration of propolyne glycol. HOWEVER...we dont have any flow gauges installed. Insufficient flow could be causing my compressor to shut off (freeze up) and force the aux on.

3. I'm very intrigued with geothermal heat pump...and it was a selling point for this home (esp because of it's size 3500+2000 basement) BUT I'm not very smart on it all just yet. WE THOUGHT there was a leak in the groud loop. The methanol based solution was supplied with a fresh city water line to keep at pressure....thus any leak would casue city water to enter the loop and decrease it's antifreeze concentration. We thought maybe the water froze in the loop last winter causing the condensor to freeze and the aux to run.

This spring we fixed a leak (actually it was a small one in the house) and closed the loop to ensure no water entered... So far, the system is holding pressure pretty well, but it didn't prevent the compressor from shutting off when aux heat came on.

I hope you get it all figured out. It seems like therre are some really qualified people monitoring your posts...rely on their advise.

THe energy audit costs were knocked down 50% from my local utility credit and 70% from my regional power company. Check into it with you electric company...a IR audit with bklower door test etc cost $150 vs $300. He came with a few goodies too (light bublbs, aerators, low flow shower heads).

(sorry for the ramblings... just thought I should drop my 2 cents...ok maybe 4)
-Kevin

Kevin,

Why don't you start another thread with your information and see if the guys can help. Start by going to the sticky "Problems with Your Heat Pump? Start Here..." Answer as many of the questions as you can and the wisdom of the web will come your way.

Bergy

thanks Bergy,...wil do. Just wanted Stan to know he wasn't alone.