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jonr
Senior Member
Posts:5341
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| 26 Mar 2012 10:39 AM |
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In the test, how much wall width was supporting how much weight? For example, two 4' wide wall surfaces were supporting 2000 pounds of water.
With 1.5 inches on each side, I expect that you will have a very strong house. |
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jrobicheaux
New Member
Posts:32
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| 26 Mar 2012 03:03 PM |
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Posted By jonr on 26 Mar 2012 10:39 AM
In the test, how much wall width was supporting how much weight? For example, two 4' wide wall surfaces were supporting 2000 pounds of water.
With 1.5 inches on each side, I expect that you will have a very strong house.
jonr, The direct answer to your question is 1.5 inches wide X 16 ft supporting 6400 lbs. A picture is worth a billion words. This is the floor wall joint before it was shot. Notice the horizontal floor panel STOPS at the vertical wall panel so its load transfer mechanism stops there as well and that transfer mechanism is all shear. The floor panel doesn't rest atop the wall panel which would allow direct compressive load transfer. It is hanging on the wall by only mesh and concrete.  After shotcrete application the test structure is two 12 ft (tall) X 8
ft (wide) X 8 in (thick) walls supporting a 12 ft X 8 ft X 13 in floor.
The floor doesn't attach to the top of the wall but to only the
inner Wythe of the wall panels 1 ft below the top. So, 6400 lbs of
water is supported by a pair of 1.5 inch wide X 8 ft long SCIP Wythes on
the inner side of each wall. These two thin steel reinforced concrete
shells are resisting the entire live+dead load and moments generated by that
load. There is some (weak) composite reaction from the 6 inch O.C. Z trusses which allows the outer Wythe to act as a buttress keeping
the inner Wythe in column. Please notice the mesh gussets above and below which double the wall
panel mesh As (area of steel) and add substantial strength to this joint
in shear. My calculations suggest it would take over 1500 lbs
of force per linear foot at this joint for it to fail in shear. The floor would have to be loaded to 250 lb/ft^2 to generate that shear force. The
floor panels would probably fail in Euler buckling before
they could be loaded to that level. Put another way the joint can probably take more load than the floor. The entire reason for this test was I just wasn't comfortable with this moment connection. I am now. |
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slenzen
Basic Member
Posts:434
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| 11 Dec 2012 12:49 PM |
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SCIP, any updates on the CO house as far as utilities/thermal performance? thermal imaging for conduction by the truss wires? I'd be curious to know since I haven't seen much on SCIPS in cold climates. thanks!
I wonder what data exists on multiple freeze thaw cycles for this construction as well.
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Alton
Veteran Member
Posts:2164
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| 11 Dec 2012 02:11 PM |
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Jrobicheaux,
Am I correct? The only steel reinforcing in the connection of the floor panel and the wall is the steel wire mesh plus the wire mesh gussets? If so, I would think that the connection could be made stronger by inserting bent rebar above or below the intersection of the wall/floor panel. Of course, for a home, it may not be needed. But for a garage floor, more strength could be appreciated.
I have not used SCIP shotcrete floor panels but I was advised to insert #4 rebar diagonally at the top of openings in the Insteel wall. I was told that this would limit crack formation at the top of the windows. |
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Residential Designer &
Construction Technology Consultant -- E-mail: Alton at Auburn dot Edu Use email format with @ and period .
334 826-3979 |
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jonr
Senior Member
Posts:5341
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| 11 Dec 2012 04:19 PM |
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I think I see rebar in the vertical portion of the wall. |
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jrobicheaux
New Member
Posts:32
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| 11 Dec 2012 06:23 PM |
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No, those are just the outer chords of the Z-truss's. I once calculated that two layers of the one inch mesh had the equivalent As (area of steel) of a #3 rebar on one ft centers and that was running in both the vertical and (far less important) horizontal direction.
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jonr
Senior Member
Posts:5341
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| 11 Dec 2012 07:14 PM |
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I suppose mesh also avoids the point loading from more widely spaced rebar. |
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jrobicheaux
New Member
Posts:32
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| 11 Dec 2012 08:50 PM |
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Exactly,
The equivalent As comes with a much greater surface area as well. I can't find my calculations but I think this mesh has at least three times as much surface area as a single equivalent As rebar, and it's distributed uniformly over the loaded connection. Even if external point loads are applied they are distributed by both the vertical and horizontal strands of the steel in the mesh. When I try to visualize the load paths in this stuff I think of a steel reinforced concrete hammock.
To speak to Alton's question I think the horizontal component of the mesh As contributes greatly to the strength (crack mitigation) over window and door openings. I'm not saying it's enough that requires an individual load/moment analysis.
Jim
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SCIP Panel
New Member
Posts:50
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| 11 Dec 2012 10:01 PM |
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Szen
The utility was nearly non existent last winter.
I will be meeting the owner in the next few weeks and will be asking about utility bills.
Till this week we have been unseasonably warm
As for thermal imaging I was waiting till it got cold.
Now its cold and I am Finishing up whole house renovation.
I am in the middle of a 3,500' TI audio Video show room with an additional 3,500 lower level TI finish after upper level is done.
On a another job I am Fabricating a custom 18' ten quarter walnut bench, mantel, art shelves and shadow light rails above fire place. Now they also want 8' tall arch top DBL doors with side lights made to close off the music room and a home theater in the basement with stadium seating.
I also signed another home theater today.
I have on the books to bid a garage , two bathrooms and a kitchen as a result of the whole house renovation.
As for cold thaw the SCIP building built in Parker Colorado in the 90 looks great, and the office/ factory in Arvada or Lakewood CO also has a number of winters and when I spoke to the owner he said is very happy with the performance of the building.
Both look great and I saw now problems. I have been meaning in my spare time to drive up to see the SCIP home built to replace one of the homes that burnt down in the Four Mile fire above Boulder CO.
As soon as I get the show room and the pre Christmas rush jobs done I will be able to make time to do the thermal imaging. I will also post up on the Highland home as I get information.
I am also in design or bid process on several other SCIP projects one really exciting one is a Frank Lloyd Wright design.
Anyone in So Florida That wants to build or consult on building a SCIP home, who already has built one let me know. |
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jrobicheaux
New Member
Posts:32
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| 03 Feb 2013 11:30 AM |
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Withdrawn
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Lbear
Veteran Member
Posts:2740
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| 03 Feb 2013 03:42 PM |
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I went to the site and looked at the photos of the build. That home is completely out of square. I could not find one true and square window and door opening, let along the pillars were completely out of square & leaning. (See southeast elevation)
Why is the home so out of whack? It has to be worse in person than in the photos because if you can see the window or door opening to be out of square, in person it will be 100x worse.
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jrobicheaux
New Member
Posts:32
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| 03 Feb 2013 04:27 PM |
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Posted By Lbear on 03 Feb 2013 03:42 PM
I went to the site and looked at the photos of the build. That home is completely out of square. I could not find one true and square window and door opening, let along the pillars were completely out of square & leaning. (See southeast elevation)
Why is the home so out of whack? It has to be worse in person than in the photos because if you can see the window or door opening to be out of square, in person it will be 100x worse.
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Alton
Veteran Member
Posts:2164
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| 03 Feb 2013 05:28 PM |
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Lbear,
My wife, brother and I have visited the work site a few times since construction commenced. The building looks much better than the pictures show. Our last visit was on 1-8-13.
I saw nothing that would discourage me from building with shotcrete panels. A good stucco coat can add color and uniform finish. Been there and done that with a fine sand finish of stucco over shotcrete.
I understand from the architect/builder that the final finish will be Tabby (broken) Shell. See examples on the web.
As Jim keeps us posted on progress, I hope to make more trips to his site to learn all I can. His architect/builder has been outstanding in sharing information with me about building with shotcrete panels since my experience has been limited. |
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Residential Designer &
Construction Technology Consultant -- E-mail: Alton at Auburn dot Edu Use email format with @ and period .
334 826-3979 |
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Lbear
Veteran Member
Posts:2740
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| 03 Feb 2013 07:02 PM |
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Posted By jrobicheaux on 03 Feb 2013 04:27 PM
I guess I forgot to put in my standard caution>
All but one of the photos are Photo stitched composites. the distortions you noticed are just that, distortions. I'm sure you realize even parallel lines appear to meet at infinity when photographed from a point. This is exaggerated by the Photoshop software which actually moves pixels around and makes straight edges curve to achieve a joining of an adjacent image.
The greatest out of plumb condition I've been able to find is an internal column 1 ft X 4 ft X 38 ft tall which has one surface that is 1/2 inch out. Since this is a solid SRC column that is loaded along it's length by floor and roof moment connections and not at it's top, I'm not concerned.
Thanks for the clarification. I would post that caution on the website in BIG BOLD letters or get different photos. As the photos make the home and SCIP construction look like a home being built in a 3rd world country. When a friend of mine looked at the site photos he thought it was a home going up in Haiti. The distortions are pretty bad and the photos should be changed or at least have the disclaimer posted under the photos. I don't mean to sound harsh but I am just being honest. I am now confident the home is true and square but the photos did it a disservice. The SCIP build is interesting. Does 2012 IBC recognize SCIP? How does the exterior shotcrete work in an area that experiences freezing temps? Is the shotcrete water proof/moisture resistant? Wouldn't that cause freeze/thaw cracking issues on the exterior of the home? |
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slenzen
Basic Member
Posts:434
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| 03 Feb 2013 11:44 PM |
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great to see project moving forward! |
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slenzen
Basic Member
Posts:434
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| 28 Feb 2013 02:21 PM |
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http://www.concrete.tv/2013/02/how-do-you-protect-a-concrete-building-from-earthquakes-and-hurricanes/
GCT seems to be expanding and building in the US in gulf coast, and mentioned ND and AK as welll for cold weather building. |
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Richard Sims
New Member
Posts:40
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| 28 Feb 2013 05:00 PM |
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Posted By slenzen on 28 Feb 2013 02:21 PM
http://www.concrete.tv/2013/02/how-do-you-protect-a-concrete-building-from-earthquakes-and-hurricanes/
GCT seems to be expanding and building in the US in gulf coast, and mentioned ND and AK as welll for cold weather building.
Having met with Edgar, Victor an Scott after talking to them for months I am glad to have a stable US company to get panels and information from.
I made my panels for the SCIP home I built.
I am glad I did it (once)and am now bidding jobs with GCTs panels.
Their wealth of information and support is beyond what I hoped for.
They need to post up the thermal study as it blows what I had been told and thought regarding how thick the EPS need to be.
Thermal Mass is like adding steroids to the R value.
3" of EPS with their concrete dropped 138 degrees to 72 degrees on the interior cement side of the wall. |
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Alton
Veteran Member
Posts:2164
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| 28 Feb 2013 07:08 PM |
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Mr. Sims, you may already said, but are you a contractor that installs and shoots GCT panels? If so, where are you located? I always seem to be looking for various trades throughout the southeast to do alternative type of construction. I have to admit, the last 10 years more and more alternative construction is getting done and more people are getting trained. I think there is even more hope for the future to save energy and to withstand storms. |
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Residential Designer &
Construction Technology Consultant -- E-mail: Alton at Auburn dot Edu Use email format with @ and period .
334 826-3979 |
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Richard Sims
New Member
Posts:40
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| 28 Feb 2013 08:03 PM |
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Alton
I just missed you last year at WOC.
I am in Colorado.
Call Scott at GCT he is in northern Florida.
I am bidding Two on Colorado, one in Texas and one Jamaica and consulting on the design of one in and Miami and I know of another in Miami already designed looking for a contractor.
Richard |
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Alton
Veteran Member
Posts:2164
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| 28 Feb 2013 08:55 PM |
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Richard,
Now I remember about us trying to get together in Vegas. We have exchanged some e-mails but it has been awhile.
One of my clients and I have been communicating with Scott and others at Gulf Concrete Technology (GCT). I have not met Scott in person although I have met others at GCT. This Saturday, we are supposed to meet with Scot as he exhibits GCT panels at the Huntsville, AL home show. Anyone interested in shotcrete panels in the Huntsville area should make an effort to see GCT technology and get their questions answered in person.
I just wish other companies would be as knowledgeable and responsive as every one at GCT has been with us. So many companies do not answer their e-mails until a phone call has been made to follow up on their lack of response. I cannot believe that business is so great that they do not have time to answer their e-mail. If that is the case, it is time to hire more people and get this country moving again by building structures. |
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Residential Designer &
Construction Technology Consultant -- E-mail: Alton at Auburn dot Edu Use email format with @ and period .
334 826-3979 |
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