The Lite-Form ICF that I am using are nothing like the Fold Forms.  The one I am using (Lite-Form Xtra) is just 8" x 48" x 2.5" thick flat planks of 2# nominal density EPS with 1" deep slots molded every 8" along the edges and tongue-and-groove fitment on the ends.  Plastic ties are then inserted into those slots every 8".

These are more labor intensive than standard ICF blocks, but they are less expensive and shipping charges are less because of the packing density of the flat planks.  This was an advantage to me being a DIY.  If I had to pay someone to assembly the forms there probably would be little if any cost advantage; although, several contractors use them around here and like them (labor costs are low in this area).  We have a new 3 story Fairfield Marriot hotel recently built with the Lite-Form ICFs. 

Also, the EPS foam used in the Lite-Form planks is of a higher density than most block type ICFs (2# vs 1.5#) and is stronger.  A disadvange of these forms is that you do not have a nearly continuous plastic tie running vertical like the block type forms, but rather a 1-3/4" wide x 2.5" tall tie pad every 8" OC.  This wasn't a big deal to me since I am sheetrocking the interior (glued and screwed to the tie pads) and using standard brick veneer on the exterior.

Any leftovers for me will get incorporated into my ceiling insulation since they are just flat planks of EPS foam.

I noticed someone early on mentioned Fox blocks must be bought by the truckload. Here in the upper midwest we have a big box home store called Menards and they are carrying Fox Blocks by the block. Here are their prices, someone let me know how decent they are:
8" core R24 covers 5.33 sq ft $16.48, 45* corner $18.48, 90* corner $18.99

Those are about normal prices for purchasing from a distributor. depending on the quantity you need you will still have to coordinate transportation to the jobsite. depending on the distance and quantity a couple hundred bucks for truck or trailor rental, unless pricing includes delivery to site.

Foxx Block's marketing and distribution has been geared toward direct purchase from the manufacturer, which is the reason for the statement you referenced.


arkie - Is Lite Forms still carrying that line? Both links on their hompage (lite-form and Flexx Block) link to the Flexx Block section of their website.

As far as I know, Lite-Form is still carrying the original line of forms.  The new website that you can link to directly from this site does take you to the Flexx Block page when you click on the Lite-Form link.  I'm guessing that someone screwed up the page link on the new website.

You can still get to the original website with the original flat plank forms by doing a google search.

Lite-Form flat plank ICFs with links to installation manuals, photos, etc is here:

http://www.liteform.com/About_Lite-Form.htm

Info on Lite-Form Xtra planks is here:

http://www.liteform.com/xtra.html

 

I am an ICF installer and in know way have anything to do with the selling of products I just choose to use the best and the best by far is ARXX. ARXX blocks are the number one block in the world and have the specs and test to prove it and have a pattened on the web design.   

ICFARXX,

Wecome to the forum. I'm very curious about this post. If you have anything to do with selling the products, they why have you been saying that you travel all over the US Installing ARXX? When you travel to a particular region, you seek out an ARXX Distributor and work with them and if you go through them there is no additional cost added to the consumer?

ARXX webs are 8" OC and Amvic is 6" OC and Amvic has been tested to be the strongest with a form capacity strength test at 865 lbs/sq.ft. (last I knew), could you please explain how ARXX is still the best by far. If ARXX is by far the best block out there, then why would you post that you install Amvic as well?

How are ARXX Blocks the #1 block in the world? Since they have the specs and tests to prove it, I would appreciate seeing it.

Thanks - renangle

FYI - I sent an email to Lite-Form about their page link error and they appear to have the link to the original Lite-Form ICF corrected now.

To nielb : How many Hobbs walls suffer from improper concrete consolidation ?

2 inch spaces are very difficult to fill with regular ICF mixes...it would seem to me that grout would be the only
logical fill material........ and in a lot of locales grout is considerably more costly than concrete.

next, I notice horizontal rebar only 1 run at the top and 1 run at the bottom of the wall.
How can this be as strong as ICF's that have one horizontal per course ?

Eric:
I sent you a pm, yet I need to enplane the Hobbs System. Concrete will not consolidate if applied properly.We use a 3/8" aggregate mx like most other ICF'S. " WE DO NOT USE GROUT! "

Also, we use a #4 horiz. on the btm, and one on top. We use #4's vert. every 16". However, this is an engineered system. Every plan, and job sold will have an Engineer's stamp for the State the job is in. We will require the dealer or whomever installs our system to follow the directions and install it as show.
If you are still curious about the method, look into a post and beam application. This is very similar.

Please feel free to ask any questions, we will stand behind our product 100% and if need be, will send a Technician to help one get started.

Once again, thanks for the questions!

I disagree with anyone who makes a blanket statement that ICF construction is not for the DIYer. With no previous experience, my son and I erected ICFs for both the basement foundation and above grade walls for our house using TF System vertical ICFs. I took the two-day training course and read their installation manual thoroughly. I got all the support I needed from the guys in Green Bay. It was actually fun to do the work myself and I saved $20K by doing so. TF uses 2 lb. EPS so it resists blowouts well, can be erect from the ground and requires surprisingly little bracing. I can't compare it to other systems because I haven't tried them. It could be that some block systems are harder to install, prompting the warning to DIYers. All I can say is that I wouldn't hesitate to do it again.

I'm clearly an advocate for a national certification program.  I've been pouring with wood and aluminum forms since 76, first ICF in 2000, got rid of those cumbersum forms.  I can honestly say, my first three pours, I was physically shaking in my boots.  Then it set in, these things do work. I've taken the training courses, like most installers here, which were nothing more than just the basics. Even there basics were misleading, pound the wall with a 2 x 4, or run a sawsall on the ties, tried that once, internal mechanical vibration should be mandatory. Those two day courses are merely a sales pitch,  they elevate your confidence to superman status. The block company that puts quality before sales, runs a televised national marketing program, minus the mis-nomers, will leave the pack behind. I have called block companies, told them I couldn't read a tape measure, not one deterred me from installing. "Hey, Bob and Sue did it in a weekend!" Did they get it square, plumb, level, and straight? Does Bob and Sue know the difference between a 6" or 10" slump, that waffle-grids and certain corners are prone to floating, the effects of chasing water around a footer, defective block, how about midranges or super P, or pouring on a 85 degree day, to name a few, any one of those can create your worst nightmare, and this is all learned in the field. A two day course, or manual, cannot replace field awareness. I've seen my share of failed ICF attempts by in-experienced people. The more walls you pour, some day the unexpected will happen, we've all had our share of them, and when it does, you better be prepared to react to the situation. Is Bob and Sue ready for that? PA state jobs, it's in the specs that the ICF installer must have a minimum of 5 years experience.  I'm just a rookie compared to some of these guys. Sooo, when they advise to seek out a experienced person, there's a reason behind it.

Well done tdamaged. The chances a DIyer with no experience can pour a fully consolidated wall on the first pour is about as close to zero as statistics can allow. Because the concrete is full to the top of the form at the end pour is no guarantee that the wall is full. I've had people who have taken training courses from block reps. in my area, that have been told all you need do to consolidate the concrete is to tap the wall with a 2x and a framing hammer. Utter BS.

Also to get back to the original question. I don't sell Fox Blocks but I do have a sample of the product and I like it. The webs are very minimal which would allow for good concrete flow. They have very big corners, simple reversible castillations, what's not to like. It's made in the USA with hopefully American petrochemical products.

Smart and TD, I fully agree with you on certifying installers.
Also.......It is my belief that a final report should be issued by the Block Manufacturer on each and every install,
and that the Manufacturer has a due diligence to do so.

My 2 cents.

Based on my one experience, which means it may not be representative, with Build Block I'd be skeptical that mfrs would want to have a documented report of every install. Any problems that can be traced back to the molder of the form, or a design deficiency, or lack of training or support from the mfr, would be negative information the mfr would have to address. They'd rather ignore a problem than face up to it head on. BB didn't offer me more than token compensation for a grievous problem I had with over sized corner blocks, a problem directly attributable to poor process control by their contract molder. I posted about it here about a year ago.

I sell BB but the contract molder that makes the blocks does such a great job with the product, we have to put a foot on the webs to pull the blocks apart. Supremo job. My problem is with the pour. I've been involved in about 200 pours since 1989, starting with my own house. I know damn well that I have voids in the walls. luckily I have 3000 ft of rebar in the walls and I used a 4500lb mix. When I poured it I was not a stranger to concrete. I used a waffle grid and filled with a 2.5 " line pump. I would never sell a newbie a waffle grid or a screen grid. We have questions periodically from people on the best form. Most forms on the market will work without blowouts which seems to be a big concern. What you want is a form with as little webbing inside to not restrict to flow of concrete. There are forms on the market that I would worry about my ability to full consolidate properly.
+

Dmac, my thoughts on Manufacturers responsibilitys are like a "golden oldie" broken record :-)

And I fully sympathize with the issues and problems you experienced on your build.
Luckily for BB, you are highly intelligent individual whose diligence in planning and
 execution overcame the defeciencies in their product.

Funny how any other structural concrete situation..... poured walls, suspended slabs, etc.,
 get the full P Eng.treatment..........

 and ICF systems...... which are supposedly P Eng designed and validated, rarely get a walk by or even a drive by from their birthparents.

Now all you Manufacturers Reps on here will say its not so.....but who actually keeps records of their site visits,project and occupancy reports ?

I am loving this conversation. It shows me that we are on the right path! Please make a note of this. Every job the we sell, is Engineered and has that states seal on it. We at Hobbs, believe in being the best WE can be. In service, in material, and in offering "Ont The Job Training". Please don't miss understand me. We have had problems on jobs, as everybody has. But it has been mostly installation problems. here is where we shine, our material and our engineering is first rate, and we have a support staff that can help you in real time....like right now. If you have a question, give us a call, and let us prove ourselves to you!