Good heavens people. Owner builder will always be the exception, and more so every year, because of leery bankers, insurers and building inspectors.

At the same time, it is entirely possible that Lbear is hearing prices 30 to 40 percent higher than market. In my part of the world, existing home prices are off by that much because of a foreclosure overhang. "Dan Pulte" has hitched up his pants and soldiered on with new construction that costs more than today's existing but a whole lot less than 2008 new construction. Because new homes around here have to pass blower door tests now, his tract homes are not crap in energy terms anyway, or at least not the crap they were in 2008. The one ICF builder around here who has a solid business and builds a great home probably charges a markup around 30 percent.

So, if Lbear wants better but can't afford/is reluctant to pay premium prices -- I'm guessing one of those describes the majority of prospective buyers who come to this site -- what's wrong with a middle ground approach? The alternative, again in my part of the world, is two or three quality ICF homes/year and an infinitesimally small penetration rate.

"it would be better if he was a consultant and kept the subs (plumbing, drywall, electrical, etc) in line while I do the GC part of the build"
Sounds like a good compromise as long as you both know clearly what your roles are. The biggest problems can usually be traced to a misunderstanding of roles and duties.

I would first like to invoke Rodney King's question, "why can't we all get along?" It's unfortunate the thread has gotten snarky in some corners; that just brings us all down.

If the original poster is still reading, I built my house DIY and acted in the role of the GC. I designed the house but had engineered plans for steel SIPs. I would like to make a few points that I hope will inform your process:

1. You will likely be charged more as an owner/builder for materials and labor.
2. You don't know yet how much you don't know (and often you can't know until you're confronted with it).
3. Funding/financing issues have the potential to make or break not just the project, but your own personal solvency.
4. Scheduling is crucial, so make sure you have materials and skills lined up and in the can - waiting to order something until you can see and measure the rough opening will cause major problems.

I survived the issues that I had, and ultimately completed the house (way over budget and way late). I had help from amazing people that got me through it. I also had stumbling blocks placed in my path by unscrupulous jackals. Would I do it all over again? Yes, if I had more money (and more control over the money), and if I knew then what I know now. That means I could do a second one if I wanted to!

Jelly:
Did you get completed quotes for the house from qualified GC's? Do you think that the overage would have been less had you used a GC? Or were the overages things that were forgotten, left out of the budgeting or added during construction? Can you estimate your savings? I know that if you (professional or DIYer) do not do in depth budgets going in, there are usually things that are overlooked, hence the cost (to someone) goes up. Things that I forget to budget for come out of my portion; that's true for most above board contractors; although I know that some pass the cost of their mistakes onto the homeowners.

I should clarify, I didn't do it myself primarily to save money, although that did fuel my reasoning at times. In my area at least, there are hardly any qualified general contractors interested in energy efficient and responsible green building. I did get quotes from GCs, and the high quotes led me to believe that if I wanted to go with something outside the norm then I would have to go it alone. Another part of the reason is that I am a "creative" and am used to doing things from the ground up - in other words I simply wanted to do it with my own hands.

Some overages were definitely from things forgotten or left out of the budget. I had an awful lender that gave me horrible advice from the start, and then penalized me monetarily when I had resulting budgeting and scheduling problems.

Other reasons for overages were design issues. These are the kinds of things that I have learned from the experience and could apply to a second project. In fact I am sort of curious if there is some way I can move into the field. I think a better approach for green projects would be more of a design/build scenario, where the designer acts as the GC and hires out all the right crews for the various tasks. That may be common in other parts of the country, but not in this region, at least in the residential market.

you're right that a GC who does not do the design will have a more difficult time estimating and building, if it differs from his usual and standard practices. That's probably a lot of the underlying issue here. All the more reason to get better building design into the code books, since most won't learn on their own if they aren't forced into it.

Posted By Jelly on 08 Nov 2013 10:20 AM
I think a better approach for green projects would be more of a design/build scenario, where the designer acts as the GC and hires out all the right crews for the various tasks. That may be common in other parts of the country, but not in this region, at least in the residential market.

Jelly, this was the norm in Florida (pre hurricane Andrew)
so because the building inspectors did a poor job of enforcing the code and taking payoffs in Miami , the state penalized the builder by not allowing him to do his own designs
I have done several hundred home designs myself and occasionally still do with a engineer's sign - off, but I don't always have the time to do it, so I farm it out

Posted By Jelly on 08 Nov 2013 09:35 AM
I would first like to invoke Rodney King's question, "why can't we all get along?" It's unfortunate the thread has gotten snarky in some corners; that just brings us all down.

If the original poster is still reading, I built my house DIY and acted in the role of the GC. I designed the house but had engineered plans for steel SIPs. I would like to make a few points that I hope will inform your process:

1. You will likely be charged more as an owner/builder for materials and labor.
2. You don't know yet how much you don't know (and often you can't know until you're confronted with it).
3. Funding/financing issues have the potential to make or break not just the project, but your own personal solvency.
4. Scheduling is crucial, so make sure you have materials and skills lined up and in the can - waiting to order something until you can see and measure the rough opening will cause major problems.

I survived the issues that I had, and ultimately completed the house (way over budget and way late). I had help from amazing people that got me through it. I also had stumbling blocks placed in my path by unscrupulous jackals. Would I do it all over again? Yes, if I had more money (and more control over the money), and if I knew then what I know now. That means I could do a second one if I wanted to!

Great points and I agree that these are things owner/builders will face. That is why I would hire a project manager or consultant who has GC experience and I could work with them to get me through these sticking points and hurdles that I will definitely face.

Posted By Jelly on 08 Nov 2013 10:20 AM
  In my area at least, there are hardly any qualified general contractors interested in energy efficient and responsible green building. I did get quotes from GCs, and the high quotes led me to believe that if I wanted to go with something outside the norm then I would have to go it alone.

The above is the problem I face, and many have faced. In my area it's even worse, as the area has ZERO GC's that know how to build green. Building green to them is installing a CFL.

"1. You will likely be charged more as an owner/builder for materials and labor.
2. You don't know yet how much you don't know (and often you can't know until you're confronted with it).
3. Funding/financing issues have the potential to make or break not just the project, but your own personal solvency.
4. Scheduling is crucial, so make sure you have materials and skills lined up and in the can - waiting to order something until you can see and measure the rough opening will cause major problems. "

Yes these are great points. I think you will find they are made in the first and second page of this thread.

"Jelly, this was the norm in Florida (pre hurricane Andrew)
so because the building inspectors did a poor job of enforcing the code and taking payoffs in Miami , the state penalized the builder by not allowing him to do his own designs"

This is sort of like blaming the police for criminals. It goes both ways. Could you say because of unscrupulous builders who ruined it for all the others?

Been there Jelly, and it gets much better. After a lifetime of sweat equty, I am building the exact house I want with cash and all the time I need, and it's mighty gratifying to sit in a room chock full of I-did-thats.

"it's mighty gratifying to sit in a room chock full of I-did-thats."
And that is the best reason for doing it yourself! If you save money thats a bonus, most won't. Even if it cost you a bit more, it would be worth it for some.

Alternate use of time comes into play. In your case you have the time and its clear you enjoy doing it. Now imagine if you are trying to raise a family, keep a boss happy and explain to the wife why the job isn't done yet.

Most of my sweat equity came from remodels so the missus and kids were inured to dust and noise and "temporary" bath facilities. But the clever home improver will have an ace up his sleeve. Buy everything on an airline miles credit card. Nothing restores domestic peace faster than "Honey, how about weekend in (fill in the blank.)"

Extra dividends: My son is setting tile in his (new to his family) cape cod and turns out he is pretty darn handy. And he is actually following my advice. (Concentrate first on the trades, like tilesetting, that have a huge labor cost component,) I helped my plasterer hang drywall on this house so he could do it as a moonlighting job. But there is no joy or much savings in DIY wallboard.

"he is actually following my advice." That even better then "chock full of I-did-thats" Do you have a recipe for that??

There is only one recipe. Live long enough. The older they are, the smarter you get.

My daughter, who spent her teen years asking if the house would ever get done, recently gave me the Miranda Lambert CD with "The House that Built Me."

Posted By toddm on 12 Nov 2013 12:24 PM
There is only one recipe. Live long enough. The older they are, the smarter you get.

My daughter, who spent her teen years asking if the house would ever get done, recently gave me the Miranda Lambert CD with "The House that Built Me."

Mark Twain

That is really neat!!