Oh, just noticed you didn't tape the top of your forms with 3 inch tape, this protects the form untill the next level is set and ensures a clean surface for same with the least effort, ho hum.

Dave F:
Go and answer your 8 cell phones, they are all ringing.
Notice the J-bolts at top of pour. This will indicate the ICF will not continue upward.

Ben

to help prevent footing and bottom of wall movement, when you pour your basement floor, simply remove a 4"x4" area of foam on the inside, every 24" or so, and ensure the floor concrete is poured to contact the bottom of the wall. I have seen foam compress with movement due to high backfill pressures at the bottom of the wall between the wall concrete and the slab. Takes only about an hour, and is good support against lateral wall movement.

Mark Ross

There's no reason why you can't backfill before you pour an 'insete' slab, I'd take Marks advice and cut back the bottom inside to comply with code though.

The question I have for you is what water proofing are you using, and don't start to backfill until the wall cools off, with your mix that should be 3 days.

Capillary breaks are great when they don't interfere with the engineering of the wall. Unfortunately in this application they do. Therefore it is out of code. Therefore you and many others are practicing 'code-minus' construction for the same amount of money.

Ben-

The pour looks like it went well! What are you going to use as a water barrier? Like Dave said let your walls cure for a few days before you backfill. The corner shouldn't be an issue, especially since it is going to be backfilled. - Pete

Pete,

I asked my TF system salesman what they recommend for damproofing.  He sold me a Karnak brand fibered roll on product that comes in 5 gallon buckets.  For the above grade portion he recommended a product from Sto Corp.  It's a trowel on, two layer system.  You embed a fibermesh roll in the 1st layer, and then top coat with a color tinted layer.  It's rated to go below grade. 

I've seen the dimpled sheets advertised, but couldn't figure out how you'd cap it.  I'm sure if I'd investigated a little I'd been able to learn how to keep water from getting behind the sheets.

Ben

Mark,

I'll be sure to cut the foam back at the slab level as you suggested, I've always wondered how the foam held back any lateral movement... from your observations it seems it doesn't.

It'll be 5 or 6 days before I'm ready to backfill, that'll give me time to get the floor system on, damproofing applied, and excavator scheduled.

I've also been wondering what the best way to fill the gap in the foam where that corner moved.  Rolling Karnac over it and troweling on my above grade coating sure won't work too well.  I've been told to spray foam it and then cut it back to get an even base.   Any thoughts?

Ben

Mark, lets keep printing more absurd ideas to keep people from buying and or using ICF's. Ben lets examine this with some common sense, I have sold and poured and witnessed thousands of ICF's in the last ten years and have never heard of the foam being removed for this reason. Wouldn't one think that with all the engineers I work with and other ICF professionals that this would have come up in the past as a bad practice. Secondly, the obvious point being ten's of thousands of basements are poured every year with poured walls with no slab and back filled. They don't shear from the footing at alarming rates, so why is an ICF any different. The footing dowels alone prevent this problem, even though I think pouring the slab before back filling is the best idea. Thirdly, take one lineal foot of slab up against the foam: 4" x 12" = 48 sq inches x (average ICF 15# comp per inch) 15# = 720# per sq inch at 1" thick foam. There is no soil available to put this kind of stress on the foam. i.e. soil group three (clay) 60# per sq fooooooooooooooooot!

Next, lets examine the water problem this could create, go to cactus boards website and see why cactus works. If you remove the foam any potential water migrating will flow right out on your slab. Cactus and ICF allow the water to pass to the top of footing and at least in the case of an ICF maybe travel of the footing and under your slab where your porous fill will take up-to a 1000 gals of water before flowing back up over your slab.

Don't revove your foam.

Dave

Dave:

what prompts me to do so is several fold, first, good engineering practice, and second, proper damproofing methods do work, third, I moved a wall 2.5" with backfill 6' high on the wall, with the footing sliding on the clay, and buldozing the clay that was against the inside of the footing of a basement ICF wall. Primarily however, common sence. If your relying on your interior polystyrene to be a waterproof membrane, or your floor concrete to be waterproof, then I think that Ben might want to contact the manufacturer with respect to approvals, however why then would we consider applying something additional to the exterior of the wall to reduce water infiltration.

However with the drainage layer of gravel Ben has placed below the slab, combined with the perimeter form a drain interior drainage system, I would have to say that catus would be a triple redundant product to install. Again, common sence can govern here. Catus board is a retrofit, which was originally designed to resolve post construction water intrusion, and it works quite well, however if water is getting under the wall system at the footing level, and climbing uphill to flow over the slab, then Bens interior and exterior weeping system he installed would not be functioning, and as such, the cactus board would have no place to drain to anyway.

As for the exterior waterproofing system that Ben is using, so long as it meets code and is approved for use, he will likely have little problems with it. Yes there are better items to use, such as membranes and drainscreens, however I would advise Ben to check manufacturer warrantees for the waterproofing system, some have 10 years or more against water intrusion, others do not have one unless installed by licenced technicians, however many have none at all. Ben, it would be a good idea to call the company on the lable, to see its compatability with your ICF and to confirm any warrantees.

Mark Ross

Ben,

Keep posting. I am following this thread with great interest. I might be in your shoes next year. What mix did you end up specifying?

Thanks,

Leonard

Yes spray foam will work just fine, however I would take the back of your hammer and knock the concrete back before you fill it with foam. - Pete

Leonard,

I asked the plant for help on the mix as I know little about concrete.  They suggested a 4000 psi mix with 3/4 aggregate.  I wish I knew more, maybe I can find out.

Best of luck,
Ben

Mark, I've always admired your ability to skirt the obvious. I didn't say he should use cactus, I was merely pointing out its ability to drain water under the floor rather than on top as your method would do if a leak occurs. Secondly I asked an on-site engineer yesterday what he thought of us removing the foam and his answer was as expected, no!

Dave F, your antics are so funny, HA HA. You also need to re-read my post it says poured, sold and witnessed thousands, that is referring to a combination. At 50 to 100 truck loads a year that is a easy mathematical equation.

Dave

It's time for a pay per view block stack off and a concrete pour off!

Guys....especially Walltech and Dave F.

This thread is about Ben's project of his home. I am trying to learn from his successes and potential errors. Let's try to keep focused on Ben's success and to help constructively answer his questions......please. I think we all heard enough chest beating for this thread.

Thank you,

Leonard

I applied the karnak today, here's a few pics.

As to what meds anyone is taking, may I suggest working in 70  degrees while the leaves change color around you, blue sky overhead, and a nice stack of floor joists just waiting to be rolled.    That's the best drugs I've ever done.  I must say...  I enjoyed the  ICF portion of this job, but am quite happy to be going on  up with wood. 

Have a great weekend all,
Ben

Looks like a great job, I'm glad you enjoyed ICF and spread the word as to how easily it is done.

Dave

Some particular reason you're using a double sill plate? I've always seen single.

With a double plate you don't worry your joists laying out on a J bolt, and you gain that much more ceiling height (I've triple plated before to get a full 8' 1" basement ceiling height).  I didn't need to  use treated for the second plate, but was in a  hurry when I ordered the materials.

Ben