Just curious if anyone here was their own GC during the home build?

How difficult is it and has anyone regretted being their own GC during a home build?

Going through it right now. Things are going well, nice to be on site every day to make decisions of things that come up. Today we are pouring the basement walls. http://kasshabog.blogspot.ca/?view=sidebar

It has been my experience that many contractors charge more for homeowner GC's. Most take more of our time due to ignorance of many things.

In a recent example I drove to a house 40 minutes away to measure and design/bid. After I emailed a proposal the customer asked me to meet him at the project. When I met him he asked me to include a variety of things that weren't on the estimate.
I returned to my desk and emailed I revised proposal. The homeowner asked when I could start and would I meet him on site again. I showed up with my new proposal only to be asked to modify it again to include new things. Meanwhile the electrician had started and was creating situations that would have to be changed (for instance handi boxes in cavaties wall cavities we had intended to use for return air and tightly stretched wire across basement joists which make running duct more difficult).

I returned to my desk now 6 or so hours deep (in what should have taken one visit and a few email exchanges) and modified my proposal a final time with latest changes and additional charges (for what was clearly going to be a project that wasted much of my time). I've not heard back and am shedding no tears.

My homeowner contracts have evolved to include consequences for such things as extending the project more than 180 days after endorsement (one such project took so long my cost of steel literally doubled), notes that trade work out of order may require additional charges (remember HVAC first wires and small pipes go around ducts a lot easier than the inverse), outlines what work is not included (mainly as a reminder that there is still stuff they haven't contracted).

Some homeowners run off their GC's with indecision or changes. Many cost themselves much more (6 figures in two examples that come to mind). Generally a professional GC will finish the job quicker (saving you interest) and often cheaper (as tradesman discount for GC's they trust).

Ocassionally a very well researched homeowner will save themselves money and get the job done in a timely manner. Make no mistake about it, it is work and generally not a part time job.

Contractors trade their time and often their bodies for a pay check. If you are not respectful of those facts by educating yourself on the project to optimize their time or keeping a clean site to help avoid injuries, or you change your mind repeatedly causing things to be done more than once; you will waste your money.

It all depends. It's really just another management job, the magnitude of which depends on the size of your build and how unique it is. What I generally hear is that people wouldn't do it twice, although it can be the only way to get something you want when the local contractors have little or no depth of experience.

There is a book titled "Houses are Designed by Geniuses and Built by Gorillas" that might help wake you up to the realities of it.   You can also read entire blogs written by people who have done the self-GC thing.  They are quite good at illustrating how things go wrong during the course of a build.
(Hint: it's usually communication issues, so good luck)

Good advice ICF. That's the kind of research I was referring to. Communication is often a culprit as you point out, but I would add the caveat that some times a homeowner GC and a contractor don't speak the same language.

I.E. H/O says "I know it wasn't on the blue print, but do you guys mind framing in this extra room in the basement?" Framer says "no problem".

Homeowner meant " it will only take the guys a little while, they could do me this favor since they are already here and I awarded them the big project".
Framer notes that homeowner recognized it wasn't on the print (ergo not in the bid) so homeowner shouldn't be suprised when handed a bill for a multiple man hours and materials.

Joe and ICF - well said!
I would add - if you are not normally a well organized person, don't do it.
Also, if you think you are going to micro manage your trades, make sure you have at least three of each lined up because chances are you will need them.

I've been a GC for years, but know people & friends that have done it. First, as stated above it is a full time job for at least some of the build. If you can't be there, be able to - and do - answer your cell at any time, starting early AM into evening. Be able to go to the job when necessary, at the spur of the moment, for any length of time it takes. Be able to make quick decisions - they will need an answer NOW, not sometime tomorrow. Be ready and willing to look objectively at problems that come up - they will, and the trades need a clear mind to figure out a solution to keep the project going. Pay your trades promptly within two or three days; nothing will help morale or service more. Do not badger for a lower and still lower price; it will come at it's own cost.

If you're imagining you can make a few phone calls in the evening and save thousands, you are dreaming. If you are looking for the experience and go into it with your eyes wide open, and have the time, you can have a great experience.

I've been on job sites and sometimes the GC doesn't even show up, sometimes he is there for 1-2 hours and leaves, he was rarely there every day and maybe in a week (Mon-Fri) he was on-site for a total of 6-8 hours. Especially if the GC was running numerous projects at once, he would sometimes not even show up the entire week.

While growing up I worked on job sites for my uncles and cousins who were GC's. I didn't delve into their books but I did see some of their financial practices. One that caught my memory was when they would go to the store and grab a light fixture for say $50 and then charge the homeowner $100 for the fixture and another $100 to install it.

Some claim a savings of 10% while others claim 20% if one does the GC themselves. On a $300k project that is a savings of $30k - $60k. So what are the real world numbers if the homeowner does the GC?

The reason a quality GC does not have to be on the job all the time is because he is working with quality trades who he has worked with many time before. They know and trust each other and the trades know each other as well.
For the new GC, for the most part, he will be working with trades he doesn't know and with a group of trades who don't know each other. Perfect recipe for a sour job site.

If you happen to know one or two really good trades, ask them to recommend other trades that they normally work with, it will be a big help.

Also remember that most trades work for GC's that give them many jobs a year, so if it comes to a scheduling problem between you and the other GC, you lose.

That said, If you have spent the money to have a professional draw up your plans and they have been done professionally, you are half way there. Don't take a set of half finished plans to get prices and then say "Oh by the way we are changing this and that and add this". Make sure the plans are complete and destroy any others so there is not a conflicts. Keep one set for yourself and mark if as such. Now you can make notes about as builts and other things that will serve to give you a true record of the building program. You should do this even if you don't GC it.

Most GCs will mark up anywhere from 15 to 30%. To assume this is the dollar you would save is pipe dream. I am just finishing pricing out a job that a home owner started on her own. My finished price to her is 7% less then the total of prices she had gotten. Plus now she will earn her regular income. I buy most supplies between 10 and 40% cheaper then the home owner and all my trade give me better prices then they will a home owner. Several of my trades have worked for me for more then 25 years so I don't have to check every thing they do. They know they will get paid between 5 and 15 days of submitting their invoice and they know they will get paid even if I don't. It's my responsibility to make sure the customer has the where with all to pay us.

If you are thinking of GCing it to save money, maybe yes probably not. It will take a toll on your family life and on your real job. Make sure you can spend the time. Bob I lays it out quite well. If you want to save money, stack your own block, its simpler and less stressful then GCing.

Also remember that most trades work for GC's that give them many jobs a year, so if it comes to a scheduling problem between you and the other GC, you lose.

As a homeowner with a single build, you pretty much always lose. Only 1 in 10 subs has enough integrity to treat your job as well as he does the ones he gets from a regular contractor.

Other items of interest;

1) Paperwork. If there is only one type of paperwork you do, make sure it is documenting "change orders". Don't let the sun go down on a change you have discussed with a sub without putting it in a binder with a unique identifier.
2) Major Subcontractor licensing. Check for licensing and bonding both in advance and THE DAY BEFORE he starts on the job. Do it.
3) Have a set of printed jobsite rules to hand to all subs when they arrive. You'd be surprised at what they DIDN'T learn in kindergarten.
4) NEVER make upfront payments.  ALWAYS keep a substantial holdback until job is completed.

I GCed my single build and am glad I did for many reasons. If you have the time and expertise - or are willing to research your home's systems so you know what you want and how you want it done - it is definitely worth it. You save money, you control each step of the build, and most important of all, by being on the ground and supervising, you prevent errors from being made. Also, do your research on your trades, get recommendations from folks who have used them, get a feel for who will work with you and who you feel comfortable with, and make sure they do things the way you want them to be done.

-Rosalinda

I'll add some more: You will need IRS info for filing your 1099's and insurance info to verify they have the correct insurance. You will need those before they start. Change orders - not only write them down, but agree on a fixed price, or an hourly price, have everyone sign the agreement, and pay then for that change within a week of when the change is complete.

You wrote: "he was on-site for a total of 6-8 hours". Keep in mind there may be many many hours of office work and phone calls every week for your job. Being "on site" is a small part of doing the work with good tradesman. If you have to be there all the time to make sure the job is going well, you are not managing it well.

One big question is whether you will be working a second job - in addition to being the GC, which is full time - while this is happening. If this will be your only job, you might be able to save some money.

"I've been on job sites and sometimes the GC doesn't even show up, sometimes he is there for 1-2 hours and leaves, he was rarely there every day and maybe in a week (Mon-Fri) he was on-site for a total of 6-8 hours. Especially if the GC was running numerous projects at once, he would sometimes not even show up the entire week."

All true, but deceiving (and why so many get in trouble). It suggest one can manage multiple projects and spend very little time on their first project......fat chance. As was pointed out years of cultivating relationships with subs and suppliers makes that possible permits a GC to do much work by phone or email vs in person. GC is also responsible for everything that goes on when they are not there and must be accessible at least 18 hours a day. Decisions are made on sunday nights.

"I didn't delve into their books but I did see some of their financial practices. One that caught my memory was when they would go to the store and grab a light fixture for say $50 and then charge the homeowner $100 for the fixture and another $100 to install it."

This is a "business" not a "financial" practice. It takes time to pick up and install a fixture. Then you must warranty it for a year (meaning you might have to pick up and install another one). Certainly a homeowner can avoid part mark-up (and warranty) by going to the store and picking items up themselves. They can avoid labor by installing it themselves. In fact they can be GC, plumber, electrician, drywaller, painter, trim carpenter, excavator, foundation pourer, flooring guy, etc. and avoid all kinds of mark-ups.

"Some claim a savings of 10% while others claim 20% if one does the GC themselves. On a $300k project that is a savings of $30k - $60k. So what are the real world numbers if the homeowner does the GC?"

Somewhere between 10% and losing money. As was pointed out, a homeowner GC will likely pay more for everything from lumber to trades. Wasting tradesmans' time is expected and charged for.

"As a homeowner with a single build, you pretty much always lose."

Likely true

"Only 1 in 10 subs has enough integrity to treat your job as well as he does the ones he gets from a regular contractor."

Only 1 in a hundred homeowner GC's respect my time as much as a "regular contractor". You have a client that gives you one job in a lifetime and one who gives you 20/yr who do you take care of? Again, not a question of integrity, it's business.

"2) Major Subcontractor licensing. Check for licensing and bonding both in advance and THE DAY BEFORE he starts on the job. Do it."

Bonding is not a requirement in my state. I would pass on the job before purchasing it to get one job. Checking on insurance is sensible, both comp and liability.

"4) NEVER make upfront payments. ALWAYS keep a substantial holdback until job is completed."

Down payments are customary, why would I give you a five figure line of credit? My builder gets credit because we've done many jobs together. I suggest a division that keeps our money close such as Down/Rough/Completion and maybe 10% back until after final inspection. In that way goods and labor are delivered and paid for incrementally.

I might also suggest you don't pull trade permits. Let the plumber, hvac and sparky "own" their own work.

Again, not a question of integrity, it's business.

When the other nine are not meeting basic business principles, it's a matter of integrity.

why would I give you a five figure line of credit?

It's not a line of credit. I'm happy to pay for items brought to the jobsite and placed in my control, and labor actually performed. Other than that, why should I provide you credit?

First off I built my own house, but I was a contractor previously so it was not the first project I GC’ed. Actually I mostly built it myself, so I did not worry too much about scheduling. It is damn hard to evaluate subs. I looked through my notes and this year I worked with (hired)28 different subs. Architect, MEP engineering firm, structural engineer,3 HVAC companies, 3 plumbers, 2 electrical firms, 3 flooring companies, roofing contractor, drywall, countertops, interior decorator, painting, structural steel company, 2 concrete contractors, fire Protection Engineer, sprinkler maintenance company, locksmith, landscaper, paving company, riggers, arborist, stump grinder. This was for a mix of projects commercial and residential, all of them not in an area I had worked previously, one project out of state. Of the subs, only 3 of them had I worked with before. 2 of the subs turned out to be disasters. One guy had a nervous breakdown and one guy turned out to be a bullshit artist. Both cost me a lot time, but no money. 1. Typically I ask subs I like and trust for recommendations about other subs. 2. If you have a good relationship with a lumber yard they are a good source of referrals. 3. Always have a backup plan if one sub does not work out. Know when to cut your losses and throw someone off the jobsite. 4. Be willing to arbitrate between trades and subs when things get ugly. 5. Know what order the subs need to be scheduled. 6. A planning meeting with all the key subs can be very helpful for complex stuff. Spring for the food. Most of the time the subs will deconflict with the other subs if they all have good blueprints and can talk ahead of time. 7. Keep at least a 10% contingency fund because shit happens. 8. Keep good records 9. Spend as much time planning the build as you do actual construction. A year of planning and research to build a house is not unreasonable. 10. HAVE ALL THE MAJOR DECISISIONS MADE BEFORE YOU BREAK GROUND. At a minimum you need to have your framing plan and decision on lumber, exact windows and doors picked out, , insulation type, heating and plumbing systems types and specified, air sealing, details worked out, flooring picked out, ventilation plan location of well and septic picked out, Lighting plan. Subs that you may need: Civil engineer. septic engineer Lawyer if easements are needed Structural engineer Architect Logger Well installer Sitework- excavation Septic installer Paver Landscaper Concrete sub Framer Siding sub Sub for windows and doors Electrician Multimedia/ network specialist Plumber Deck installer Stair builder Hvac installer Gas contractor Tiler Flooring contractor Air sealer and Insulation contractor Shower glass installer Drywall hangers and tapers Trim carpenter Interior decorator painter cabinet installer countertop fabricator energy auditor alarm company

"Only 1 in 10 subs has enough integrity to treat your job as well as he does the ones he gets from a regular contractor."
"When the other nine are not meeting basic business principles, it's a matter of integrity."

First you seem to be changing your point (they have no integrity if they treat a homeowner GC job differently) to they are not meeting basic business principles......which still sounds like business, but they can be bad businessman with poor integrity.

My point is going the extra mile for a regular customer is what people do in most businesses. It is more than cynical to suggest this common practice indicates a lack of integrity. If that's the case then frequent flyer miles lack integrity as do other rewards programs. What's in your wallet?

"why would I give you a five figure line of credit?"
It's not a line of credit. I'm happy to pay for items brought to the jobsite and placed in my control, and labor actually performed. Other than that, why should I provide you credit?

If your construction loan allows for unlimited draws (or you are paying cash) go for daily incremental payments if a contractor will deal with you. Other than that it is customary for a GC to escrow a certain amount of money for draws, if homeowner is GC then I will expect to escrow enough for each stage of the job.
If you are a homeowner GC and you wish to employ me, you will pay incrementally as I outlined before.

In your scenario ICF my work is done before the final inspection yet I bet you'll ask me to wait for a significant amount of money, that is demanding credit from me.

You can take issue or nit pik what I say ICF, but OP wants to know about GCing a house, I'm offering a contractor's perspective.

You're confused between "credit" and the cost of business. Waiting a week for the inspector to sign off on a job before getting paid is the cost of business. Having a stable enough credit relationship with a supplier such that you don't have to ask the client for "money up front" is the cost of business. I drop potential subs when they ask for a substantial downpayment as there are going to be other issues with people like that, particularly if they can't maintain a reasonable credit line with their supplier.

One thing we found was that the subs did not clean up after themselves on a homeowner job. That was puzzling because the same subs knew they were obligated to clean up other jobs. The bottom line is that people will try to get away with something if they can. Having a prepared sheet that outlines their responsibilities can help detour that sort of self-interested thinking before it can go too far.

ICF - why don't you go down to your local food store and tell them you will pay for your groceries after you take them home and taste them? Explain to them that that is just the cost of of doing business.

That's why many trades won't work for home owners who won't give a downpayment because they know that the homeowner hasn't got the funds. Many homeowners GC their own projects after the find out the can't afford the price that real contractors have budgeted and they are sure they will save 30%. That magically makes their budget works. Except by the time it comes to the finishing trades they are out of money and the trades are left holding the bag.

If you think each trade sweeps up after themself on a real job, you are dreaming. If you have the three mechanicals in overlapping, just which one is suppose to clean up? That is why the GC usually have someone going around the job sites. They cleanup, check things over and make sure its ready for the next trade. As a rule of thumb, if the trade supplied it, they should clean it up. That is, the sparkies should pick up the wire scraps but they don't have to sweep up their drill spill. but it is the GC's job to have a dumpster on site for them.

Anything you attribute to trades, trades will attribute to homeowners. Your comments show why most trades charge home owner extra.

Its clear Joe has been around for a while and I think all the GC on site will agree with him.

I pay for the groceries when I take delivery of the goods. How hard is that to understand? If there was a question about the taste, it would be possible to set up a contract addressing how that would work.

Contractors can lien property to collect debts. If you find yourself doing this too much, you might want to re-evaluate your business practices. That's what the big boys do.

I don't have too hard a time identifying who made what mess, so why would it be hard to figure out how to clean it up?

GC's have the luxury of talking to a sub about what they DIDN'T do and deciding that NEXT time

a) He will subcontract someone else
b) He will offer them less if they're going to perform that way.
c) He will press them harder on their responsibilities.

Since homeowners don't have the luxury of a NEXT time, the only option open to them is being forewarned and making a stab at c).

Just another thing that is not rocket science.